Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Fellow forumers,

Following inspiration from Ciro's post in the "ban the pitstops" thread, I've finally decided to do something wasteful with my time, and try to get your feedback, which it seems I wasn't able to get with a crazy tinfoil theory. This time, however, I'll start with cold hard facts. Please keep in mind that all timing comes from the head-to-head analysis of http://www.f1matrix.it

Fact 1
Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen spent the whole afternoon together, until lap 50. In that lap, Kimi made a mistake under braking in Turn 2 costing him about 2s and Fernando made his final pitstop.

Fact 2
The Live Timing was mad with Kimi Raikkonen. Apparently due to a problem with his transponder, no partial times were reported for him, only full laptimes. Apparently, no pitlane stay times exist for Kimi Raikkonen that day. At least, I see none in the official site

Fact 3
Not having pitlane timing for Kimi, these are the best 10 inlap + outlap combinations of the race (I could have made a mistake). You can't directly compare outlaps due to different pit position with respect to the start-finish line:
Driver ----- Total ------ Pit time -- Notes
Raikkonen    3:07.5        N/A     
Trulli       3:10.2        25.132  
Rosberg      3:10.3        25.126    12 laps to go
Kovalainen   3:10.9        25.631
Alonso       3:11.3        26.502
Massa        3:11.5        27.515    1st stop
Coulthard    3:11.7        25.706
Glock        3:12.2        26.013
Webber       3:12.2        26.817
Hamilton     3:12.4        27.895    1st stop
Note that Rosberg pitted extremely late and this is reflected on his time not only because he put less fuel but also because his outlap suffers from 8 laps less of fuel (around 20 kg). In any case, even if we substract 2 seconds (it's a Williams, after all), it's still 8 tenths off Kimi's time. Trulli's time is more comparable, because it's just 3 laps later (speed deficit compensation) and the Toyota is faster than the Williams.

Unfortunately, Hamilton's puncture means we don't get his time plus Felipe wasn't racing anymore, invalidating his second pitstop (slower than the first). Assuming that Kimi's in+out lap was as fast as Felipe's first stop, but substracting 2 seconds of fuel, we would still have a total time of 3:09.5, two seconds slower than his last stop. Furthermore, in this case both Kimi and Fernando would have fought for position, since the gap in the next lap was 2.2 seconds.

What is your take on this?
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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I thing so that this year Kimi has been so inconsistent computers and math can no longer track him properly.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Giblet wrote:I thing so that this year Kimi has been so inconsistent computers and math can no longer track him properly.
If we use maths with stocks and climate, we can use maths with Kimi ;-) Furthermore, it is my belief that he doesn't break any law of physics.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Miguel wrote:
Giblet wrote:I thing so that this year Kimi has been so inconsistent computers and math can no longer track him properly.
If we use maths with stocks and climate, we can use maths with Kimi ;-) Furthermore, it is my belief that he doesn't break any law of physics.
It is MY belief that every driver on the grid constantly breaks these laws under enormous downforce levels, extreme mechanical grip, ultra high G-loads and the emotional weight of the civilized world.

That is why I love F1 actually...

But about Kimi's time missing and being a conspiracy, I would have to say that the commentators that I saw mentioned that Raikkonen's time was stopped when he went off behind Fernando. They actually thought that Kimi had broken down because of this.

I wonder if that glitch has anything to do with the missing timings and discrepancies?

If they cheated on Kimi's stop, Massa's would have been just as fast. It makes no sense to attempt a cheat without benefitting both drivers. The reward must out-weigh the risk in order to make it tempting enough to cheat. They weren't really that bad off with Massa leading and Kimi in 5th. I doubt that there was any cheating, but better evidence may persuade me otherwise!

Chris

Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Conceptual wrote: I wonder if that glitch has anything to do with the missing timings and discrepancies?

If they cheated on Kimi's stop, Massa's would have been just as fast. It makes no sense to attempt a cheat without benefitting both drivers. The reward must out-weigh the risk in order to make it tempting enough to cheat. They weren't really that bad off with Massa leading and Kimi in 5th. I doubt that there was any cheating, but better evidence may persuade me otherwise!

Chris
I don't remember when Kimi's transpoder stopped responding, but IIRC it was somewhere in the last laps of the first stint. The thing is, he didn't get a pit time in either of his stops. Spanish commentators also made a couple of mistakes because of this. In any case, Ferrari couldn't cheat any way with Massa, since he had a fully working transponder and had timed pitstops, intermediate sectors and all the stuff.

As far as I know, pitlane speeding is computed as the average speed between both mark points, and that is what would allow kimi to (dis)engage the limiter to gain an advantage.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Scotty beamed Kimi 500 meters ahead when no one was looking

timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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It is hard to judge as apparently even Renault team hadn't found anything. However, on the lap-by-lap chart I noticed this - in laps 47 to 48 distance from leader (Kovalainen at that time) and Alonso DECREASED by 2,4 seconds. Maybe Kovalainen made some huge mistake that I havent noticed? But the distance between Alonso and Massa also decreased by 1,78 seconds over THAT single lap. So, I don't much trust the data on that site (f1matrix). Don't ment to be an insult for the people who run it, but maybe the source is unreliable or something f**ked up in transition.

(I thought I needed some explanations) I went to the site hoping to see how the gap between Alonso and Massa changed, given that Raikonnen seemed to be as fast as Massa with a clear track, I thought, his could be an indicator of how much Raikonnen lost behind Alonso and how much he could claim back.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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rjsa wrote:Scotty beamed Kimi 500 meters ahead when no one was looking
No, it was the Sasquatch frozen body they kept inside the gas rig.

Image
Ciro

Tehillim
Tehillim
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008, 17:16

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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If Ferrari were going to cheat they would have done so at the first pit stops, doing so at the second improved Raikkonen from 5th to 4th (3rd once Massa retired) - which was too little too late.

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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Ciro Pabón wrote:
rjsa wrote:Scotty beamed Kimi 500 meters ahead when no one was looking
No, it was the Sasquatch frozen body they kept inside the gas rig.

Image

Poor beast! I thought it was kept alive, helping to blow the fuel faster!

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Magyar Mystery Moment: Kimi's transponder

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rjsa wrote:Scotty beamed Kimi 500 meters ahead when no one was looking

I seem to recall saying that about some of M. Schumacher's performances in 2004.

It was like he's in the pits... Oh, wait, no, he is already out of the pits, and into turn 6!!

I can remember telling a friend that was watching with me that Scotty had "beamed" him ahead!

Chris