World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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WhiteBlue
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World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Auto Motor und Sport http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/spor ... _13987.hbs brought an article about the issue which was also brought by autosport in the English language:
... Autosport.com has learned that the FIA's sporting authority in Germany is to be discussed at an extraordinary general meeting of the FIA in Paris in October, in the wake of ADAC's decision to withdraw from all involvement with the governing body earlier this year.

ADAC has been scathing of Mosley over his involvement in a sex scandal and, following his successful vote of confidence in June, the German automobile body said it would no longer cooperate with the FIA as long as Mosley remained in power.

It is understood that that action has now cast doubt on whether the DMSB will continue as Germany's national sporting authority.

A letter from Pierre de Coninck, Secretary General of the FIA (Sport) to members of the WMSC on Friday confirmed that 'the sporting power in Germany' was up for discussion in the meeting.

One possibility is for the WMSC to react to ADAC's stance and install the rival Automobil von Deutschland (AvD) as the German sporting authority instead. AvD owns Hockenheim and also the rights to the 'German Grand Prix' name.

DMSB's loss of power could make it more difficult for ADAC to continue holding the F1 race at Nurburgring, even though the track has an agreement at present to hold the German GP in alternate years to Hockenheim.

Also up for discussion at the WMSC meeting is the future commercial rights for the World Rally Championship, and the national sporting authority in India.

The other major item on the agenda is F1 rules from 2011, with the FIA sticking to its original October date for the discussion of new regulations it wants in place in three year's time.

Max Mosley wrote to the teams in July saying they had three months to come up with some proposals to cut costs and improve racing that could be turned into rules, or the FIA would prepare its own regulations instead.

Although teams have begun the formulation of the new Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA), it is understood there has been little progress so far in actually come up with concrete proposals for the future.

Discussions in Valencia last weekend included the possibility of more sharing of chassis parts, but there was not big support behind that idea.

There were some suggestions that the teams wanted to delay submitting their proposals until January.


Two issues are worth commenting:

The ADAC is the much larger club in Germany and they have been very active in sporting events with the FIA. They also are keen to extend their commercial cooperation with several other large international touring clubs and have been in conflict with the FIA due to this scheme. Their confrontational policy after the FIA vote on Mosley could well mean that they will be exposed to retaliatory measures. I do not think that this will lead to changes in the race venues in Germany. There are contracts with FOM and between the two rings.

I can see the future rules issue going up in the priority list. Unfortunately the teams do not seem to be taking Mosley serious. Instead of hammering out some basic rules principles they have devoted their time to the FOTA and bickering over the KERS issue next year. It looks like they are pissing away their opportunity to produce a basic technical code in the three months that they have been given. If they take the stance that they can wait for January and no document will come forward then the FIA will most likely have something in the drawer to push into the debate. I fully expect some drastic measures in the cost issue to break shortly after or at the WMSC meeting. It will be likely a combination of resource restrictions and budget enforcement.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Scotracer
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Discussions in Valencia last weekend included the possibility of more sharing of chassis parts, but there was not big support behind that idea.
So it's unlikely? That's good -- I am against it.
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pgj
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Scotracer wrote:
Discussions in Valencia last weekend included the possibility of more sharing of chassis parts, but there was not big support behind that idea.
So it's unlikely? That's good -- I am against it.
I am not so sure. Homogolation of other car components is a very simple measure to announce that would certainly focus the minds of TP's in F1.

I agree that Max probably has a set of proposals ready to put on the table. Max may well have expected the teams not to put forward their own proposals by the deadline date. It is equally possible that the teams decided to be pragmatic and take the view that Max would have his own agenda ready to put forward in any event. So their best line of action is to form an organisation, FOTA, to take negotiations forward once Max shows his hand.

Bernie's role in this troubles me though.

Good post WhiteBlue.
Williams and proud of it.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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World Motor Sport Council - Decisions 07/10/2008
An extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council was held in Paris on 7 October 2008. The following decisions were taken:

FIA
Marco Piccinini, FIA Deputy President for Sport, confirmed that he is to leave his position, one year before the end of his term, to focus on his other professional commitments. His resignation takes effect from the next FIA General Assembly on 7 November 2008, when his successor will be elected.

The WMSC agreed to propose to the FIA General Assembly that the sporting power in India be transferred from the Motorsports Association of India (MAI) to the Federation of Motor Sports Clubs of India (FMSCI).

The FIA has mandated Alan Donnelly, the FIA President’s Representative, to ensure that the DMSB, the holder of the national sporting authority in Germany, is truly independent of the ADAC and capable of running the sporting power in the country.

FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

The WMSC unanimously agreed to give the FIA President authority to negotiate with the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) the introduction of radical measures to achieve a substantial reduction of costs in the championship from 2010.

Failing agreement with FOTA, the FIA will enforce the necessary measures to achieve this goal.

It was further unanimously agreed to allow Formula One teams to equalise engine performance across the field for 2009, pending the introduction of cost-saving measures from 2010.


WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP

The FIA will invite tenders for the Commercial Rights to the FIA World Rally Championship from 2010. The tender will be published on 16 October 2008 and close on 15 November 2008. The winning tender will be announced at the start of Rally Ireland, the first round of the 2009 season.


FORMULA TWO CHAMPIONSHIP

Drivers finishing in the first three places in the final classification of the Formula Two Championship will qualify for an FIA Superlicence.
nothing unexspected here. Donelly seems to be the bad guy when the FiA needs one.

I wonder how they are going to regulate engine power? Probably via the elctronic box. it is a logical step following from the emphasis on energy saving technologies and cost saving in F1. Ferrari and McLaren are likely to be miffed about this. Renault will be pleased. good politicking by Flabby.

the super license scheme for F2 is good, hopefully giving better meaning to this championship.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Conceptual
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Total engine equalization? So even MORE emphasis on aero?

How long until there is only 1 perfect chassis design under the rules, and everyone is paying to develop their own identical car?

Too bad. I'm sure that the teams could benefit hugely from a common monocoque basis for their designs, but if you start at the same point, and maximize the rules at every stage, then you will have identical chassis. It seems to be an even MORE expensive way to have a spec car championship.

Scotracer
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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No, no, no, no, no.

That ruling is totally and 100% against F1. Ugh, that will have terrible consequences as Mclaren, Ferrari and BMW spent a lot of money making their engines good in 2006 then the small updates in 2007. Total bullshit if you ask me. Why not just open up the engine regs for another year? Give everyone equal opportunity to improve performance?

:x
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modbaraban
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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F1 once was a pinnacle of motorsport. Now it's becoming something reasonably priced for the 'developing markets'.

Like this:
Image

I guess it's not very long before I start asking myself why I am following this... and follow manchild. :roll:

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Conceptual wrote:Total engine equalization? So even MORE emphasis on aero?

How long until there is only 1 perfect chassis design under the rules, and everyone is paying to develop their own identical car?

Too bad. I'm sure that the teams could benefit hugely from a common monocoque basis for their designs, but if you start at the same point, and maximize the rules at every stage, then you will have identical chassis. It seems to be an even MORE expensive way to have a spec car championship.
It wont put any more emaphasis on the aero, what it will really do is put more emphasis on the KERS, and that is a great thing. Internal combustion engines are maximized, its time to explore new technology, or F1 will start to look like NASCAR, especially next to the LE Mans racing series.

Everybody can see how different the Ferrari & the McLaren are this year, and they shine under different conditions, there will never be 1 perfect chassis as long as they are run on different tracks, under different weather conditions and by different drivers.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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Scotracer wrote:No, no, no, no, no.

That ruling is totally and 100% against F1. Ugh, that will have terrible consequences as Mclaren, Ferrari and BMW spent a lot of money making their engines good in 2006 then the small updates in 2007. Total bullshit if you ask me. Why not just open up the engine regs for another year? Give everyone equal opportunity to improve performance?

:x
Money wasted! they were supposed to freeze development of their engines as per the rules but chose instead to take advantage of loopholes in the system. The money they spent was supposed to be put into the KERS systems and now it seems Ferrari & BMW, and to a lesser extent McLaren are struggling with those very same KERS systems. They made their choice and now they must live with it.

Opening up the engine regs is absurd, especially with the possiblilty of a new engine formula to come in 2011, why spend more money on 99.9% maximized engines just to squeeze out a couple HP... if you havent noticed there is a global recession going on... wasting money is not cool anymore, even in F1. F1 would collapse if 2 more teams pull out. and the MAnufacuters arent doing all that well.

equalizing the engines will put more emphasis on the KERS and that where it should be, but success next year will go to the team who optimizes tire usage.

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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
The WMSC unanimously agreed to give the FIA President authority to negotiate with the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) the introduction of radical measures to achieve a substantial reduction of costs in the championship from 2010.

"radical measures"? That sounds very ominous. Once again, cunning (Max) will triumph over greed (F1 teams). And the sport and its fans will be the ultimate losers.
Failing agreement with FOTA, the FIA will enforce the necessary measures to achieve this goal
.
Sounds like a prediction.
It was further unanimously agreed to allow Formula One teams to equalise engine performance across the field for 2009, pending the introduction of cost-saving measures from 2010.
That will be easy. NASCAR can show them how. #-o

Let's see, how to do that? Ferrari must remove one spark plug, Mercedes must remove one exhaust valve. BMW must insert a dried plum into exhaust pipe #1. . . .

Seriously (but how can we take this seriously any more?), how can engines be equalized WITHOUT incurring big costs? First, how much will it cost to measure the HP and torque outputs of the various engines? Which will be the benchmark? Then, either the powerful engines will have to be redesigned to some extent, or at least back-engineered to where they were (?) OR will the other engine builders be allowed to upgrade their engines (which will not be free of cost). Again, seriously, it might not be a cheap matter for Renault and whoever else to match the most powerful engine.

Ah well, this is funnier than watching Monty Python re-runs for the umpteenth time.
Hey Max: SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, and an exploding penguin to you.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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ISLAMATRON
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easy fix.... max says hey guys, those of you who broke the spirit of the engine freeze rules have a max rpm of 18.5K(or whatever needed)... haha engines equalized, easily done.

or restrict their air inlet, its really not a difficult thing to accomplish.

timbo
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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I wonder how they would "equalize" engines? I mean I seriously doubt that all engines were equal at the beginning of 2007. Would they revert to that figures?

Scotracer
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Re: World Motor Sport Counsil agenda 7th October

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
Scotracer wrote:No, no, no, no, no.

That ruling is totally and 100% against F1. Ugh, that will have terrible consequences as Mclaren, Ferrari and BMW spent a lot of money making their engines good in 2006 then the small updates in 2007. Total bullshit if you ask me. Why not just open up the engine regs for another year? Give everyone equal opportunity to improve performance?

:x
Money wasted! they were supposed to freeze development of their engines as per the rules but chose instead to take advantage of loopholes in the system. The money they spent was supposed to be put into the KERS systems and now it seems Ferrari & BMW, and to a lesser extent McLaren are struggling with those very same KERS systems. They made their choice and now they must live with it.

Opening up the engine regs is absurd, especially with the possiblilty of a new engine formula to come in 2011, why spend more money on 99.9% maximized engines just to squeeze out a couple HP... if you havent noticed there is a global recession going on... wasting money is not cool anymore, even in F1. F1 would collapse if 2 more teams pull out. and the MAnufacuters arent doing all that well.

equalizing the engines will put more emphasis on the KERS and that where it should be, but success next year will go to the team who optimizes tire usage.
Sorry but you can't just expect to throw money at a problem and it be forthcoming in a solution -- look at Toyota. The largest budget of all teams and they are decidedly midfield.

Remember it's Magneti Marelli who are making the Ferrari KERS system, not Ferrari directly.

They haven't spent a ridiculous amount on engine development anyhow.

Whilst the equalising of engines makes sense, there is NO easy way to go about it. If a team didn't break any rules, they cannot be penalised for it (oh wait, Hamilton in Spa ring a bell?) -- especially after the FIA approved the modifications.

It is Renault's fault they didn't properly read the regulations and take full advantage of them, no one elses.
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