Kubica leave out BMW!

[Kriss]

Yesterday in Singapore once again team strategy in the refueling time was very bad. Look Rosberg & team radio Kubica.
KUB is very angry for his team. This sitiuation repeat too often, also in 2007 season was the same problem, lot of problem whit team, mechanics in the pit stop, race engineer, strategy for race etc.
In my opinion KUB have enought that and BMW Sauber F1 team also.
What do you think about this opinion?

[axle]

Sorry, I can't for the life of me work out what you're saying.

Can you try again?

[Saribro]

Kubica was lighter to get further up on the grid for qualifying (as has been his tendency, and I would also assume, his choice and not just the team's), this forced him to come in for fuel during the safety car period when the pitlane was still closed, adding an extra penalty.
Without Piquet's crash (or if he had crashed earlier or later), timing may have turned out fine, but Piquet crashed when he did, so it didn't. Tough break, that's life, not malice from BMW.

[timbo]

Anyone knows how many laps does SC before pit-opens? Is it a defined number or race-control decides this? If Kubica's engineer knew that he won't be able to waint until pits are open, than it was a bad desicion to wait, and he should pit on the same lap with Rosberg. If he couldn't know than it was just unlucky gample.

[Kriss]

Kubica say in team radio that maybe better option is refueling now, durig the SC was on his first lap on the track. But team was absolutly unprepared for this, and KUB must stay in track another lap, it was crucial moment in Kubica race.

[Saribro]

Kubica say in team radio that maybe better option is refueling now

Right, so now you're saying it was Kubica's own, personal, choice to come in earlier than planned, catching the crew off guard. And this is the team's fault, how?

Anyone knows how many laps does SC before pit-opens?

IIRC, The pit lane is closed untill the pack is reformed. (Race leader being the first car behind SC, lapped cars having been allowed to unlap themselves)

[pgj]

Robert got caught out by an unfair rule in just the same way that Nico always seems to. I do not believe that anyone at BMW was at fault for the penalty. It is tough justice for both drivers and it cost Nico the chance of a race win.

[alexbarwell]

The SC pit lane penalty could have caught any team, just very bad luck their fuelling brought them into this window. As has been said already, if piquet jr had not caused a safety car situation (or even on later or earlier laps) then the race outcome would have been very different. The rule was put in for a reason to stop this diving into the pits. Similar moaning to 'we would have won if it hadn't rained' or '...if our engine hadn't blown up'. There is luck and judgement, both make for different outcomes. Sorry BMW, you could have tried to drag it out to the open window and risk conking out on track.

[guy_smiley]

The rule was put in for a reason to stop this diving into the pits.

yeah Peter Windsor was talking about how silly and ironic this rule is. they put the rule into place to stop everyone from coming in at the same time, and then what happens? as soon as pit lane opens....everyone comes in at the same time!! thats when people rush themselves and make the kinds of mistakes we saw.

[myurr]

The rule was put in for a reason to stop this diving into the pits.

yeah Peter Windsor was talking about how silly and ironic this rule is. they put the rule into place to stop everyone from coming in at the same time, and then what happens? as soon as pit lane opens....everyone comes in at the same time!! thats when people rush themselves and make the kinds of mistakes we saw.

But it's not true - that's not what the rule was put into place for. It was put into place to stop everyone ignoring safety by driving back to the pits as fast as they can before getting stuck behind the safety car.

The danger is to the marshalls on track attending to whatever accident has triggered the safety car - that is the danger they were trying to eliminate.

I'm not particularly a fan of the rule, but I can see where the FIA are coming from on this one - and all the teams should be carrying that extra couple of laps of fuel as McLaren certainly do and I presume Ferrari do as well. The only teams to be caught out by this rule are the ones that don't allow the safety margin. Basically they're the ones gambling that they won't be caught out, so there should be little sympathy if they end up being caught out by that gamble.

However it would perhaps be fairer on the teams if they knew that at most they'd have to do 4 laps behind the safety car or something like that, so that the FIA would have a time limit by which they have to open the pits. By that time the drivers know the nature of the incident and where it is, plus as the safety car will still be ahead of them they'll have to real incentive to push through that section.

[Ciro Pabón]

Yes, I have the same thought as myurr: if the number of pit boxes is not enough for all the cars to refuel at the same time, they should allow for at least one extra lap, so everybody has a chance to refuel without having to wait behind another car.

[boci]

Kubica would have to be extremely daft to leave BMW now as Ferrari have their seats filled out until the end of 2010 and BMW are the only other team that would be competitive enough to win him a championship.

[Conceptual]

The rule was put in for a reason to stop this diving into the pits.

yeah Peter Windsor was talking about how silly and ironic this rule is. they put the rule into place to stop everyone from coming in at the same time, and then what happens? as soon as pit lane opens....everyone comes in at the same time!! thats when people rush themselves and make the kinds of mistakes we saw.

But it's not true - that's not what the rule was put into place for. It was put into place to stop everyone ignoring safety by driving back to the pits as fast as they can before getting stuck behind the safety car.

The danger is to the marshalls on track attending to whatever accident has triggered the safety car - that is the danger they were trying to eliminate.

I'm not particularly a fan of the rule, but I can see where the FIA are coming from on this one - and all the teams should be carrying that extra couple of laps of fuel as McLaren certainly do and I presume Ferrari do as well. The only teams to be caught out by this rule are the ones that don't allow the safety margin. Basically they're the ones gambling that they won't be caught out, so there should be little sympathy if they end up being caught out by that gamble.

However it would perhaps be fairer on the teams if they knew that at most they'd have to do 4 laps behind the safety car or something like that, so that the FIA would have a time limit by which they have to open the pits. By that time the drivers know the nature of the incident and where it is, plus as the safety car will still be ahead of them they'll have to real incentive to push through that section.

How does that help? Are you saying that Ferrari and McLaren hold 2 gallons onboard in "reserve" at all times? Or are you insinuating that they know when the SC is going to come out?

I see it as the teams fuel for a set number of laps. If the SC is out and the pits are closed on that lap number, you NEED to pit. Even fueling for 2 more laps wont help, because the SC could just as well happen 2 laps later... Understand?

[boci]

The rule was put in for a reason to stop this diving into the pits.

yeah Peter Windsor was talking about how silly and ironic this rule is. they put the rule into place to stop everyone from coming in at the same time, and then what happens? as soon as pit lane opens....everyone comes in at the same time!! thats when people rush themselves and make the kinds of mistakes we saw.

But it's not true - that's not what the rule was put into place for. It was put into place to stop everyone ignoring safety by driving back to the pits as fast as they can before getting stuck behind the safety car.

The danger is to the marshalls on track attending to whatever accident has triggered the safety car - that is the danger they were trying to eliminate.

I'm not particularly a fan of the rule, but I can see where the FIA are coming from on this one - and all the teams should be carrying that extra couple of laps of fuel as McLaren certainly do and I presume Ferrari do as well. The only teams to be caught out by this rule are the ones that don't allow the safety margin. Basically they're the ones gambling that they won't be caught out, so there should be little sympathy if they end up being caught out by that gamble.

However it would perhaps be fairer on the teams if they knew that at most they'd have to do 4 laps behind the safety car or something like that, so that the FIA would have a time limit by which they have to open the pits. By that time the drivers know the nature of the incident and where it is, plus as the safety car will still be ahead of them they'll have to real incentive to push through that section.

How does that help? Are you saying that Ferrari and McLaren hold 2 gallons onboard in "reserve" at all times? Or are you insinuating that they know when the SC is going to come out?

I see it as the teams fuel for a set number of laps. If the SC is out and the pits are closed on that lap number, you NEED to pit. Even fueling for 2 more laps wont help, because the SC could just as well happen 2 laps later... Understand?[/quote]

I think hes saying that some teams carry lets say 24 laps worth of fuel but will pit on lap 22 to make sure SC doesnt screw them over. If SC doesnt come out then they qualified with 2 laps extra and probably lost track position because of that but if they didnt have those 2 laps extra and SC had come out they would be forced to pit and get the penalty.

[myurr]

I think hes saying that some teams carry lets say 24 laps worth of fuel but will pit on lap 22 to make sure SC doesnt screw them over. If SC doesnt come out then they qualified with 2 laps extra and probably lost track position because of that but if they didnt have those 2 laps extra and SC had come out they would be forced to pit and get the penalty.

Yeah that is what I was trying to say.

So all through the race, well until the final pitstop anyway, the McLarens and presumably the Ferraris are carrying an extra couple of laps of fuel.