Making a cool million bucks on a test Friday

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.f1technical.net/news/10632

I think this an exceptional idea if they do it right. 3 hours of free practise sessions is no proper replacement for a full test day. F1 need to have full grand stands on Fridays as we saw in Singapore five days ago. They can easily shed another 8 in season test days then.

Financial incentives to be fast could be one way. They also need to look at having more time on track and giving young test drivers more time in the cars. I my view they should have 4 90 minute sessions of which 3h are dedicated to test drivers. the test drivers should also be elegible to the cash price for fastest lap.

Finally I want them to have a go at the new drivers point system that Bernie has been thinking about for years. Championship should be decided by the number of wins with second and successive places only counting if they are tied. the teams can have a completely different system for the money that may or may not reflect if they are chassis constructors.

I do not think the current system represented and promoted by Williams is very sensible. Toro Rosso shows that there is some milage in clever contracting and good management. they need to look into that in my view. In the last 10 years Williams hasn't contributed anything in terms of new cutting edge technology to F1. But they have politiked to protect their third rated engineering by all kind of rules and schemes. they still loose tons of money and will go the way of Jordan sooner or later, unless something new comes up.

[Miguel]

I think this an exceptional idea if they do it right. 3 hours of free practise sessions is no proper replacement for a full test day. F1 need to have full grand stands on Fridays as we saw in Singapore five days ago. They can easily shed another 8 in season test days then.

Financial incentives to be fast could be one way. They also need to look at having more time on track and giving young test drivers more time in the cars. I my view they should have 4 90 minute sessions of which 3h are dedicated to test drivers. the test drivers should also be elegible to the cash price for fastest lap.

Mmm... I don't know. I think that friday is the day when you make most set up decisions towards
the race. That should be enough incentive. Furthermore, giving cash bonus would only enlarge the budget difference between the top 2-3 cars and the rest of the grid. Finally, incresing the time spent in F1 practice sessions will considerably hurt the lower series, already enjoying from a limited schedule. Maybe, just maybe, if they want to see full grandstands Ecclestone needs to (shrug) lower his fees and allow organisers to offer tickets at reasonable prices. Because currently general admittance in F1 is nearly the same price as a full weekend paddock ticket in MotoGP.

Championship should be decided by the number of wins with second and successive places only counting if they are tied. the teams can have a completely different system for the money that may or may not reflect if they are chassis constructors.

It seems our second favourite Ecclestone (after Tamara, of course) also has bad ideas.

In the last 10 years Williams hasn't contributed anything in terms of new cutting edge technology to F1. But they have politiked to protect their third rated engineering by all kind of rules and schemes.

I find this offensive, WhiteBlue.

[axle]

Totally disagree on the Williams points and feel they don't contribute to what is a discussion about the format of a race weekend.

Personally I think the Friday from (09:00-13:00 local time) should be spent doing part testing (part testing to be banned at all other times). Then at 14:00 you could then have a 1hr session like was suggested (a shoot out for the drivers).

This would make testing cheaper and more focussed. More people could see different parts being evaluated etc + there would be a test Quali session at the end of it all, and that's just Friday!!

[WhiteBlue]

In the last 10 years Williams hasn't contributed anything in terms of new cutting edge technology to F1. But they have politiked to protect their third rated engineering by all kind of rules and schemes.

I find this offensive, WhiteBlue.

Then you should argue the point.

Is there anything that has been introduced by Williams like active suspension almost 20 years ago?

When was their last WCC? 2. of WCC? 3. of WCC?

They helped to shoot down Prodive! Their politics were making life difficult for Super Aguri and Toro Rosso. I will gladly take the statement back and apologise if you show me the errors. I think that both those teams have shown that you can beat a works team by good management and save money in F1. If the protection of the constructors status would be rewarded by top class engineering from Williams I could understand it. I do appreciate what Toro Rosso has achieved and contributed to the racing in just a few years. Berger has done it on much smaller budgets than Williams. To win a GP from pole position without DNFs of the top teams is no small thing and was hugely entertaining.

This thread is about rule changes proposed in the last days. The constructor points system was definitely on the agenda. So I felt that I should make my point there.

[axle]

Way to ruin your own thread.

There is no point having a constructors title if the teams arn't building their own. You might as well make it a one make series with the same engines in the back and call it GP1. And yes maybe Williams have got it wrong in the past, but I don't see A) what that has to do with you or their importance to the sport and B) what they are doing to try to recover.

As for new ideas for the championship, I'd like to see pole position be awarded 10 points, 2nd 8, 3rd 6....etc exactly how the race results are scored. So you can earn a max of 20 points if you're a driver or 36 if you are a constructor (2 cars 1st and 2nd).

[Miguel]

Then you should argue the point.

If you don't mind, I'll do this in the Williams thread, thus using this for discussing only the friday plans and other weekend changes.

Regarding WDC based on number of wins, I don't agree because this absolutely neglects one of the cornerstones of top quality driving: consistency. The reason F1 drivers are so good is not being able to produce a stunning lap, but being able to produce lap after lap after lap close to the optimum performance in a very narrow performance window. Of course, this has to be mantained in a whole season. Are 5 victories and 5 DNFs better than 4 victories 5 seconds and 1 third? Were Prost's results better than Rosberg's in 1982? What with Trulli and Button in 2004?

I could agree that a win is slightly undervalued (alhough it represents the same percentage as in MotoGP), but it's by no means the only parameter.

[Miguel]

As for new ideas for the championship, I'd like to see pole position be awarded 10 points, 2nd 8, 3rd 6....etc exactly how the race results are scored. So you can earn a max of 20 points if you're a driver or 36 if you are a constructor (2 cars 1st and 2nd).

I see your point. However, being a nitpicky physicist, I feel that the correlation between grid position and points finish is enough reward for a good qualifying. I also feel that awarding points in qualifying would bias the cars' set up too much towards low-fuel qualy.

[axle]

As for new ideas for the championship, I'd like to see pole position be awarded 10 points, 2nd 8, 3rd 6....etc exactly how the race results are scored. So you can earn a max of 20 points if you're a driver or 36 if you are a constructor (2 cars 1st and 2nd).

I see your point. However, being a nitpicky physicist, I feel that the correlation between grid position and points finish is enough reward for a good qualifying. I also feel that awarding points in qualifying would bias the cars' set up too much towards low-fuel qualy.

Indeed or it could lead to the backmarkers trying for a light flyer etc etc...

[Belatti]

Miguel, hasta ahora el unico sensato en este thread.

[Conceptual]

I think that I stated this before, much to the dislike of many here, but here goes again.

1. WCC points are paid for qualifying positions.
2. WDC points are paid for race finish positions.
3. Blue flags are removed. Backmarkers can fight to stay unlapped.
4. Cars that are lapped are black flagged and 1 point awarded to the passer.
5. WCC and WDC becomes much closer due to the no free pass of the leader.

I know that there are alot off people that think this wouldnt work, but if what everyone wants is an exciting race, then adding a "Player Killer" aspect would immediately do the job. Not only that, it would bunch the front of the field up due to having to overtake the backmarker when he is fighting to stay in the race. Some may say that is not fair to the "better" teams, but I say it is another challenge that is rewarded with WDC points.

There is more good points, but I will reply with them as the many "NO WAY" replies come in.

Scotracer, is it possible to set up the rules in rFactor to simulate this type of system? It would be very interesting to see how it would work in a Sim first...

I await the flames.

[boci]

I think that I stated this before, much to the dislike of many here, but here goes again.

1. WCC points are paid for qualifying positions.
2. WDC points are paid for race finish positions.
3. Blue flags are removed. Backmarkers can fight to stay unlapped.
4. Cars that are lapped are black flagged and 1 point awarded to the passer.
5. WCC and WDC becomes much closer due to the no free pass of the leader.

I know that there are alot off people that think this wouldnt work, but if what everyone wants is an exciting race, then adding a "Player Killer" aspect would immediately do the job. Not only that, it would bunch the front of the field up due to having to overtake the backmarker when he is fighting to stay in the race. Some may say that is not fair to the "better" teams, but I say it is another challenge that is rewarded with WDC points.

There is more good points, but I will reply with them as the many "NO WAY" replies come in.

Scotracer, is it possible to set up the rules in rFactor to simulate this type of system? It would be very interesting to see how it would work in a Sim first...

I await the flames.

Formula 1 was characterised by purity until the mid-1990's. Without artificial features most races were quite exciting. Some would say despite the lack of artificial rules, but I think most of the excitement were due to the lack of those rules. Formula 1 was originally found as a European form of open-wheel racing, meaning fairness over entertainment. This made Formula 1 to have enough room for revolutionairy technical innovations and lacking rules to 'reduce costs' and 'to improve competition'.

Sadly, the FIA have taken over too much from the US racing series. They have tried to copy the American efforts to 'reduce costs' and 'improve competition'. I never liked the artificial features in US racing, but those features have an even worse effect on the racing in Formula 1. The artificial, typically American rules don't fit in an European racing series.

[Conceptual]

I think that I stated this before, much to the dislike of many here, but here goes again.

1. WCC points are paid for qualifying positions.
2. WDC points are paid for race finish positions.
3. Blue flags are removed. Backmarkers can fight to stay unlapped.
4. Cars that are lapped are black flagged and 1 point awarded to the passer.
5. WCC and WDC becomes much closer due to the no free pass of the leader.

I know that there are alot off people that think this wouldnt work, but if what everyone wants is an exciting race, then adding a "Player Killer" aspect would immediately do the job. Not only that, it would bunch the front of the field up due to having to overtake the backmarker when he is fighting to stay in the race. Some may say that is not fair to the "better" teams, but I say it is another challenge that is rewarded with WDC points.

There is more good points, but I will reply with them as the many "NO WAY" replies come in.

Scotracer, is it possible to set up the rules in rFactor to simulate this type of system? It would be very interesting to see how it would work in a Sim first...

I await the flames.

Formula 1 was characterised by purity until the mid-1990's. Without artificial features most races were quite exciting. Some would say despite the lack of artificial rules, but I think most of the excitement were due to the lack of those rules. Formula 1 was originally found as a European form of open-wheel racing, meaning fairness over entertainment. This made Formula 1 to have enough room for revolutionairy technical innovations and lacking rules to 'reduce costs' and 'to improve competition'.

Sadly, the FIA have taken over too much from the US racing series. They have tried to copy the American efforts to 'reduce costs' and 'improve competition'. I never liked the artificial features in US racing, but those features have an even worse effect on the racing in Formula 1. The artificial, typically American rules don't fit in an European racing series.

Can you be a bit more specific about the bolded part, and what exactly does your reply have to do with my post that you quoted?

If anything, the system that I stated removes rules, team orders, and free passes. If that is American and not European, I would really like to know how and why.

[Scotracer]

They should award Championship points, not money for the Friday sessions.

Conceptual: you can make rules anything you want but the black-flag ruling would be hard to write in.

[modbaraban]

1. WCC points are paid for qualifying positions.
2. WDC points are paid for race finish positions.
3. Blue flags are removed. Backmarkers can fight to stay unlapped.
4. Cars that are lapped are black flagged and 1 point awarded to the passer.
5. WCC and WDC becomes much closer due to the no free pass of the leader.

I await the flames.

There you go:

6. Circuit direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) is defined by flipping a coin 5 mins before each session. WCC point given to teams whose reperesentatlves guess right

[woohoo]

1. WCC points are paid for qualifying positions.
2. WDC points are paid for race finish positions.
3. Blue flags are removed. Backmarkers can fight to stay unlapped.
4. Cars that are lapped are black flagged and 1 point awarded to the passer.
5. WCC and WDC becomes much closer due to the no free pass of the leader.

I await the flames.

There you go:

6. Circuit direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) is defined by flipping a coin 5 mins before each session. WCC point given to teams whose reperesentatlves guess right

7. machine guns, spikes and flamethrowers are legal.