Ecclestone outlines dramatic F1 engine plans

[Shaddock]

Bernie Ecclestone has outlined a dramatic vision for the future of F1 in a bid to make the sport more affordable for new teams.

Ecclestone is working on a plan with FIA president Max Mosley in which a standard engine will be introduced for all cars and designed to last for half the season which they believe could reduce teams' engine costs by up to 90 per cent in two years.

The new proposals will be for a single, standard engine specification which each team will be able to build, but it will have to be identical to that of their rivals. Engine customer teams will have access to the same engine through an independent engine manufacturer.

The proposals are likely to be unpopular as many will see them cutting against the grain of F1 in which teams have always pushed development as hard as they can.

"The thing I'm most excited about is pushing and pushing the homologated engine idea," Ecclestone was quoted as saying by The Times newspaper. "The new engine will be equalised and there will only be two engine changes a year, so costs will come down dramatically."

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/10/ ... ine-plans/


Isn't this what we have now in terms of a 'basic' design. Engines are not that expensive with the current freeze relative to the cost of 2 wind tunnels running 24/7 365 days a year. Throw in the odd super computer to help with the aero and that's where the 'big bucks' are being spent.

Maybe Bernie and Max they are trying to drive out car manufacturers and go back to a grid of privateers.

[wesley123]

The idea sounds bad, but on the other hand good.

It will makes the teams like williams have more money so they can survive.

I dont like it, those engines will make like 10000revs so they can be that reliable.
Those amount of revs makes the cars sound ugly.

[Conceptual]

Don't we have a standard engine with the 2.4L V8, 90degree V, 180degree crankshaft...and so on and so forth.

Instead of making a spec engine, they should simply make the teams all share engine info, and set a 750bhp limit, so all teams can max it out.

[woohoo]

Maybe Bernie and Max they are trying to drive out car manufacturers and go back to a grid of privateers.

Nah, Bernie and Max are just trying to make F1 a spec series.
Mosley said he wanted common suspension and gearboxes for all too.

[alexbarwell]

Not particularly for or against refueling, but there is only so much calorific content to the fuel and this makes for a limitation to the power developed. A team that makes the most of any KERS systems would be more fuel efficient, so lighter fuelled for same power output for given distance, or same weight fuelling with greater power potential for same distance. If everyone had THE SAME engines and suspension and gears were all optimised then overtaking would become a rare treat.
I think I recall early 90's ferraris rather sucking in races as they could not get the performance without emptying the tanks of the non-refueling cars. The concept of conking out within sight of the finish line made it really unknown in the last few laps.
I actually think more variety, mix of engine and body designs, weight, rev and power limits chosen before the start of the season with a range of track types could make things more interesting and teams would have to make a real choice rather than finding deeply exotic means of improvements. Different wheelbases in the past stirred up results on some tracks.

[Jersey Tom]

Terrible idea. Bernie and Max are off their rockers.

[Scotracer]

Homologated engine: Fine
Engine designed for half a season: No!

[smirkoff]

I think Max and Bernie are using the old trick to aim for some very radical rules and then bargain a mid-of-the-way solution with the engine makers. It's a nonsense that they will have Mercedes, Toyota, BMW, Honda and Renault doing the same engine. I've read that the teams are in favour of standard brakes, gearboxes and aero parts like brake scoops. That's make much more sense.

[Ciro Pabón]

Let's pray for Mosley's quick retirement and Ecclestone's Alzheimer setting in so people notices it, unless...

Well, if you take the news at first sight, any sane person would say that new people is needed.

Simple: either you design a spec series or you don't. Half-a-spec (freezing engines or whatever) is terrible: all money will go into aero or whatever is left "un-spec-ed". I don't think money will go into KERS. AFAIK, KERS are outsourced.

If they want to put limits on spending, why don't they specify them? It's much more easier to say: "look, max investment is $XXX".

It's even easier now, if (as Mosley and Ecclestone said) money is going to be distributed equally to all teams. Allow me to laugh for a while. Ha, ha. All right, done. Now, what about this equation?

max investment per year = money distributed per year + sponsors money

Chantecler could not sing in a clearer way... Actually, that's the spending limit now, except for the odd saudi prince or the rare energetic drink magnate that one day decides it's cool to invest a couple hundred millions. All teams know these kind of sponsors don't stay investing for more than a couple of years before they start to check how much they lost (compared with money distributed).

It doesn't seem imposible to put a cap on sponsor's money. Actually, it would do wonders for the sport: you force the sponsors to compete for the few "slots" available, instead of having the teams competing for the few slots in the grid, as is the case now. It's exactly the same tactic Ferrari uses to sell all its cars (and more!).

Actually, I wonder if this "radical" proposal is just a bargaining chip to achieve that kind of investment cap. I've seen those guys do the same thing once and again: every proposal they make has another ulterior motive.

Since immemorial times F1 is a race for drivers AND a race for engineers. Now, FIA seems to go "full A1-GP", but five years later. If F1 cars get a Dallara chassis and a Cadillac engine, half the mistery is gone forever.

Finally, I bet (with my eyes closed) that the spec engine will be made by McLaren. They already have the ECU. Damn. That would be unfair for the rest of the teams (same thing can be said if Ferrari or BMW build the engines).

Actually, only suggesting who will get the spec engine "franchise" is enough to force the other teams to sit at the negotiation table...

These guys never ever sew without a thimble...

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, while I posted smirkoff said the same thing. I agree with him, of course.

[WhiteBlue]

Nah, Bernie and Max are just trying to make F1 a spec series.
Mosley said he wanted common suspension and gearboxes for all too.

well, it has often been said but it doesn't make it true. they want to focus the technology on road relevant stuff and not into areas that simply cost a bunch of money without other positive effects. the development money of the auto firms is supposed to go into hybrid and electric storage.

having said that, I believe we will hav ICEs for some time and making them using less fuel is an important objective. I was always hoping that they would fix the power of the engine to a specified limit and allow development for fuel efficiency.

It would make sense. the problem with that is the sales price of such engines to the privat teams. the manufacturers never agreed to manufacturing cost plus X. So now they get spec engines which I believe is even less desirable.

The other thing about competing with a fixed power ceiling is the refuelling situation. If they keep refuelling - which I hope they won't - they should make it more reliable and slower. Slow refuelling will further benefit the teams conserving energy.

[pedaltometal]

Horrible Idea! A1GP is boring and i can't imagine why those two british senile grumpy old millionaires want to turn it into that...

[Chaparral]

Nah, Bernie and Max are just trying to make F1 a spec series.
Mosley said he wanted common suspension and gearboxes for all too.

well, it has often been said but it doesn't make it true. they want to focus the technology on road relevant stuff and not into areas that simply cost a bunch of money without other positive effects. the development money of the auto firms is supposed to go into hybrid and electric storage.

having said that, I believe we will hav ICEs for some time and making them using less fuel is an important objective. I was always hoping that they would fix the power of the engine to a specified limit and allow development for fuel efficiency.

It would make sense. the problem with that is the sales price of such engines to the privat teams. the manufacturers never agreed to manufacturing cost plus X. So now they get spec engines which I believe is even less desirable.

The other thing about competing with a fixed power ceiling is the refuelling situation. If they keep refuelling - which I hope they won't - they should make it more reliable and slower. Slow refuelling will further benefit the teams conserving energy.

Gordon you know that this latest little folly isnt the main game (well I hope you do) and its probably a secondary or tertiary component of the game thats now being played out between BCE & Mosley regarding control of the upper echelons of the open wheel category GP2 v F2 GP3 v F3 and all leading to F1 - it has nothing to do with Moselys perceived agenda of cost cutting and tech benefits for everyday road users - at least you know with Ecclestone its all about the money a used motorcycle salesman is always a used motorcycle salesman - and with Mosely he lies even when he's telling the supposed truth you never know where you stand with him!

F1 is in for a rough ride over the next period thats for sure - I wonder if Tony George will get that new series running soon with new chassis and turbo power plants due - maybe a nice alternative to this shamozzle

[pgj]

I support the proposal. Although there is sure to be another motive in there somewhere. Maybe Max want to try and shake some of the manufacturers out of F1.

[Chaparral]

I support the proposal. Although there is sure to be another motive in there somewhere. Maybe Max want to try and shake some of the manufacturers out of F1.

PGI you support a spec engine series - that my friend goes against everything you signature stands for and that of Williams -"Williams and proud of it".