Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
depends on how many times you crash
in 2006 Fernado Alonso used the same chassis for the whole season
some time they change chassis because a defect has occur mainly due to the push for lighter chassis built in recent years
Ferrari chance their chassis a few times without being through a crash
Obviously chassis fatigue occurs to an extent no matter what, but for Ferrari to give Kimi a fresh chassis this season as a performance boost, and Alonso being perfectly happy using the same one all season either say something interesting about the cars or the drivers.
In that sense, chassis on F1 cars are very alike with what happens with airframes of fighter jets or even commercial airliners. The more stress they go through the less its stiffness over time. A very good friend of mine who used to pilot B737's in the pre-fly-by-wire days told me that in those times each airframe behaved differently from one another, due to the stress each airframe had gone through and that you could actually feel a very different behavior especially when approaching the runways on final.
"One of the many advantages in the use of composite materials in engineering structures is their resistance to fatigue. Careful component design means that complex, weight-efficient components can be produced which are “intrinsically safe” in that they have an effectively infinite fatigue life." -- Abstract--
Realistically, how different is the monocoque/survival cell from team to team? Does the monocoque have "bodywork" over it, or is it molded in?
Could a spec survival cell, mass produced for the teams, save money but promote different designs? I mean, even if currently these items are the outer bodywork, maybe a spec Cell with bodywork mounting points would be a great cost saving device?
That way, each team starts with the identical cell, but designs their own bodywork that covers it...
That may automatically equalize the performance in a few ways, but what do you guys think?
Heres a list i made up till Canada, after then it got very difficult to keep up to date and accurate.
Testing 2008
Race Number / Driver Team Chassis Engine No / Race No Gearbox No / Race No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-02
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-03
05 – Alonso Renault R28-03
06 – Piquet Renault R28-01
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30-
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30-
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4-01 & 02
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4-01 & 02
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-02
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-01
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108-
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108-
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08-
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08-
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01-
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01-
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
23 - Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08-
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Australian Grand Prix
Race Number / Driver Team Chassis Engine No / Race No Gearbox No / Race No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 1 – 1 1 - 1
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 1 – 1 1 - 1
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08- 1 – 1 1 – 1
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08- 1 – 1 1 – 1
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 1 – 1 1 – 1
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 1 – 1 1 – 1
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 1 – 1 1 – 1
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 1 – 1 1 – 1
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4- 1 – 1 1 – 1
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4- 1 – 1 1 – 1
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-02 1 – 1 1 – 1
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-04 1 – 1 1 – 1
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-03 1 – 1 1 – 1
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-04 1 – 1 1 – 1
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108- 1 – 1 1 – 1
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108- 1 – 1 1 – 1
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08- 1 – 1 1 – 1
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08- 1 – 1 1 – 1
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 1 – 1 1 – 1
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 1 – 1 1 – 1
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 1 – 1 1 – 1
23 - Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 1 - 1 1 - 1
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08-
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Malasian Grand Prix
Race Number / Driver Team Chassis Engine No / Race No Gearbox No / Race No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 2 – 1 1 – 2
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 2 – 1 1 – 2
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-04 1 – 2 1 – 2
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-03 1 – 2 1 – 2
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 1 – 2 1 – 2
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 1 – 2 1 – 2
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 1 – 2 1 – 2
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 1 – 2 1 – 2
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4- 1 – 2 1 – 2
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4- 1 – 2 1 – 2
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-02 1 – 2 1 – 2
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-01 1 – 2 1 – 2
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B- 2 – 1 1 – 2
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B- 1 – 2 1 – 2
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108- 1 – 2 1 – 2
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108- 1 – 2 1 – 2
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08- 1 – 2 1 – 2
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08- 1 – 2 1 – 2
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 1 – 2 1 – 2
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 1 – 2 1 – 2
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 1 – 2 1 – 2
23 - Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 1 - 2 1 – 2
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08-
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Bahrain Grand Prix
Race Number / Driver Team Chassis Engine No / Race No Gearbox No / Race No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 2 – 2 1 – 3
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 2 – 2 1 – 3
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-03 2 – 1 1 – 3
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-04 2 – 1 1 – 3
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 2 – 1 1 – 3
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 2 – 1 1 – 3
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 2 – 1 1 – 3
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 2 – 1 1 – 3
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4- 2 – 1 1 – 3
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4- 2 – 1 1 – 3
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-02 2 – 1 1 – 3
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-01 2 – 1 1 – 3
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B- 2 – 2 1 – 3
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B- 2 – 1 1 – 3
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108- 2 – 1 1 – 3
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108- 2 – 1 1 – 3
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A-06 2 – 1 1 – 3
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A-05 2 – 1 1 – 3
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 2 – 1 1 – 3
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 2 – 1 1 – 3
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 2 – 1 1 – 3
23 - Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 2 - 1 1 – 3
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08-
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Barcelona Testing April 14-16 2008
Driver Team Chassis Days Active/Position Best Time/Laps per Session
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 4/3rd 1:23.619 / 34
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 1/1st, 2/3rd 1:18.613 / 77, 113
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-06 1/4th, 2/9th 1:20.981 / 105, 98
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08- 3/3rd, 4/4th 1:19.785 / 112, 32
05 – Alonso Renault R28-04 2/6th, 3/1st 1:18.483/ 119, 100
06 – Piquet Renault R28-04 1/5th, 4/7th 1:21.913 / 91, 61
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 2/7th, 3/5th 1:19.841/ 103, 65
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 1/7th, 4/6th 1:22.431 / 72, 62
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4-01 1/6th, 2/4th 1:20.392 / 59, 89
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4-01 3/9th, 4/1st 1:20.849 / 87
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108- 3/10th, 4/8th 1:20.867 / 90, 18
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-05 1/8th, 2/8th 1:20.870/ 93, 112
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR3-01 3/8th 1:20.715 / 71
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR3-01 4/Not Active Due To Bourdais Crash On D3
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108- 4/5th 1:24.873 / 41
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108- 2/1st, 3/6th 1:18.928 / 77, 141
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A- N/a N/a
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A- N/a N/a
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 3/3 rd, 4/DNP 1:19.424 / 102
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 2/2nd, 1:19.721 / 79, 102
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 2/5th, 3/7th 1:20.452
23 - Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 4/2nd 1:23.589 / 34
31 - Schumacher Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 3/2nd 1.19.323 / 83
38 - Wurz Honda Racing RA108- 1/2nd 01:21.059 / 75
40 - Liuzzi Force India VJM-01- 1/9th 1:22.846 / 91
41 - De La Rosa McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 1/3 rd 1:21.566 / 113
NOTES FOR WEEKS TESTING:
Ferrari: New nosecone, with aerofoil thru the centre of it
BMW Sauber: New Engine Cover, more arched than before
Renault: Red Bull RB4 style engine cover, new triple plain centre scoop on front wing
Williams: New nosecone, more like the BMW Sauber and Red Bull cars
Red Bull: New Side Pod Barge Board development, like Renault and BMW Sauber, front wheel fairings
Toyota: New outboard mirror system, general aero development.
Toro Rosso: New STR3 car rolls out on Day 3; quickly enough for it to be crashed by Bourdais at turn 9 of the circuit de Catalunya, the crash was caused by driver error.
Honda: Elephant Ear wings on nosecone, new rear wing, new front wheel fairings
Super Aguri: Did not attend due to financial constraints & Magma Group deal falling thrugh
Force India: General aero Development
McLaren: General aero development across the whole package.
ALL TEAMS: Testing 2009 slick Bridgestone tires and an ultra low Monza style downforce levels for 2009 as well.
Weather: Day 1-3 Good dry weather, Day 4 Heavy Rain conditions.
2008 Spanish Grand Prix
Driver Team Chassis Engine No Gearbox No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 3 – 1 1 - 4
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 3 – 1 1 – 4
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-03 2 - 2 1 – 4
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-04 2 – 2 1 - 4
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 2 – 2 1 – 4
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 2 – 2 1 – 4
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 2 – 2 1 – 4
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 2 – 2 1 – 4
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4- 2 – 2 1 – 4
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4- 2 – 2 1 – 4
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-05 2 – 2 1 – 4
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-06 2 – 2 1 – 4
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-03 3 – 1 1 – 4
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-04 2 – 2 1 - 4
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108-02 2 - 2 1 – 4
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108-04 2 – 2 1 - 4
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A-06 2 – 2 1 – 4
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A-05 2 – 2 1 – 4
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 2 – 2 1 – 4
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 2 – 2 1 – 4
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 2 – 2 1 – 4
23 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 2 - 2 1 – 4
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08-
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Turkish Grand Prix
Driver Team Chassis Engine No Gearbox No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 3 – 2 2 - 1
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 3 – 2 2 – 1
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-05 3 - 1 2 - 1
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-04 3 – 1 2 – 1
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 3 - 1 2 – 1
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 3 – 1 2 – 1
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 3 – 1 2 – 1
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 3 – 1 2 – 1
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4-03 3 – 1 2 – 1
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4-04 3 – 1 2 – 1
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-05 3 – 1 2 – 1
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-06 3 – 1 2 – 1
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-01 3 – 2 2 – 1
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-04 3 – 1 2 – 1
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108-02 3 – 1 2 – 1
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108-04 3 – 1 2 – 1
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A-06 Withdrawn Withdrawn
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A-05 Withdrawn Withdrawn
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 3 – 1 2 – 1
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 3 – 1 2 – 1
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 3 – 1 2 – 1
23 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 3 - 1 2 – 1
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08- Withdrawn Withdrawn
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
2008 Monaco Grand Prix
Driver Team Chassis Engine No Gearbox No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 4 – 1 2 – 2
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 4 – 1 2 – 2
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-05 3 – 2 2 – 2
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-03 3 – 2 2 – 2
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 3 – 2 2 – 2
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 3 – 2 2 – 2
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 3 – 2 2 – 2
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 3 – 2 2 – 2
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4-03 3 – 2 2 – 2
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4-04 3 – 2 2 – 2
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-05 3 – 2 2 – 2
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-06 3 – 2 2 – 2
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR3- 4 – 1 2 – 2
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2- 3 – 2 2 – 2
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108-02 3 – 2 2 – 2
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108-04 3 – 2 2 – 2
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A-06 Withdrawn Withdrawn
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A-05 Withdrawn Withdrawn
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 3 – 2 2 – 2
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 3 – 2 2 – 2
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 3 – 2 2 – 2
23 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 3 – 2 2 – 2
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08- Withdrawn Withdrawn
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
Tires Used: Soft/Super Soft
2008 Canadian GP
Driver Team Chassis Engine No Gearbox No
01 – Räikkönen Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 4 – 2 2 – 3
02 – Massa Scuderia Ferrari F2008- 4 – 2 2 – 3
03 - Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08-05 4 – 1 2 – 3
04 – Kubica BMW Sauber F1.08-03 4 – 1 2 – 3
05 – Alonso Renault R28- 4 – 1 2 – 3
06 – Piquet Renault R28- 4 – 1 2 – 3
07 – Rosberg Williams FW30- 4 – 1 2 – 3
08 - Nakajima Williams FW30- 4 – 1 2 – 3
09 – Coulthard Red Bull Racing RBR4-03 4 – 1 2 – 3
10 – Webber Red Bull Racing RBR4-04 4 – 1 2 – 3
11 – Trulli Toyota Racing TF108-05 4 – 1 2 – 3
12 – Glock Toyota Racing TF108-06 4 – 1 2 – 3
14 – Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso STR3-01 4 – 2 2 – 3
15 – Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR3-03 3 – 2 2 – 3
16 – Button Honda Racing RA108-02 4 – 1 2 – 3
17 – Barrichello Honda Racing RA108-04 4 – 1 2 – 3
18 – Sato Super Aguri SA08A-06 Withdrawn Withdrawn
19 – Davidson Super Aguri SA08A-05 Withdrawn Withdrawn
20 – Sutil Force India VJM-01- 4 – 1 2 – 3
21 – Fisichella Force India VJM-01- 4 – 1 2 – 3
22 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 4 – 1 2 – 3
23 - Hamilton McLaren Mercedes MP4-23- 4 – 1 2 – 3
31- Scuderia Ferrari F2008-
32- BMW Sauber F1.08-
33- Renault R28-
34- Williams FW30-
35- Red Bull Racing RBR4-
36- Toyota Racing TF108-
37- Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2B-
38- Honda Racing RA108-
39- Super Aguri SA08- Withdrawn Withdrawn
40- Force India VJM-01-
41- McLaren Mercedes MP4-23-
"One of the many advantages in the use of composite materials in engineering structures is their resistance to fatigue. Careful component design means that complex, weight-efficient components can be produced which are “intrinsically safe” in that they have an effectively infinite fatigue life." -- Abstract--
The abstract deals with composite suspension fatigue rather than chassis fatigue.
The problem was expressed by the Formula 1 engineer's sage, Colin Chapman, paraphrasing a selection of his sutras reveals inference that a car that finishes a race is just over engineered, it should fall to pieces just after the finish line, that weight versus horsepower is the golden pursuit of cosmic excellence, the battle between the forces or excess over elegant responsiveness and many lessons I have yet to understand.
With all due respect to Colin Chapman (and a little exasperated by the over repeated phrase attibuted to him, I confess) it is imposible to design a car that fall to pieces after crossing the finish line. That can only be made on paper, but in reality there is a thing in the universe called randomness. Besides, what would Mr. Chapman do to transport the car to the parc fermeé?
By its composition it is very hard to find a material with better resistance to fatigue than CFRP. Fatigue resistance depends on relative fatigue strain to failure of fiber and resin: unlike metals, epoxy or resin is highly resistant to fatigue. Composite aluminium, carbon fiber and epoxy has been called immune to fatigue.
Yes CF it is very fatigue resistant. Failure mostly due to lack of material, layering too thin for an application, we haven't seen that happen. I've never even heard of a suspension/chassis failure.
That anecdote: it's from the F1T homepage, that's where you see it, not that the constant repetition, makes us believe it, but, the constant repetition; it introduces a certain stress, but that's what we are discussing
