A way around the testing ban?

[vyselegend]

I was reading this article from Mulsannescorner:

Peugeot and Ferrari in KERS development partnership

First, I'd like to know if you really buy that?

Admitedtly, KERS systems for F1 are radically differents from the LMP ones in terms of demands, thus are not "swapables" from one formula to another. Maybe it is possible to simulate some charging/discharging operations etc, but how truthfull would the gathered datas be? Furthermore testing without the SECU, which is the very central piece of the system.

Secondly, if we admit the possibility of such a deal, what would be the interest of Peugeot, running a system they cannot use or even learn from? (OK maybe a massive amount of money from Ferrari is reason enough).

Ferrari have been very clear about what they thought of the implementation of KERS for 2009, and they already warned Mosley and co about the costs of the program, which are in total contradiction with all the efforts to cut the budgets. The supposed association with Peugeot would certainly not help reducing the costs, but is blatantly a way to spit in the face of the FIA, showing them that the respect of the testing ban is down to the good will of the teams, and cannot be enforced by authority.

How long before we see an unofficial F1 testing session at Barcelona, with Trulli onboard the GTone, Alonso testing the Nissan RCP 92, overtaking Kubica's BMW V12 LM and Hamilton at the wheel of the Sauber Mercedes C11... Hey, double-thinking about it, it could be really nice.

But, joking appart, what exacltly prevents one of the constructors to order a R&D program to another company? From that viewpoint, FIA's attempts to control the team's expenses seems so lame...

[PNSD]

Indeed... Ferrari can so easily go to Dallara and say, "can you perform aerodynamic research on our car given these set of parameters."

There will be ways round and no doubt the teams will maximise them.

[Belatti]

repeated thread here:
viewtopic.php?p=89834&f=5#p89834

Can the mods mergee these threads?

[vyselegend]

d'oh!

sorry. I had a quick look around and I didn't spot any news or topic, should have searched more...

[alex1015]

Indeed... Ferrari can so easily go to Dallara and say, "can you perform aerodynamic research on our car given these set of parameters."

There will be ways round and no doubt the teams will maximise them.

Well it's not that far off. For example I know very reliably that a majority of the CFD staff at Ferrari for example are not technically employees of the Scuderia. Rather they are consultants that work for FLUENT. Even if they live in Italy etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for other teams as well. It's difficult to enforce the regulations when the personnel aren't even members of the team.

[xpensive]

I don't think it really matters whether the staff are members of the team or hired as consultants, you have a similar situation in other industries, when as long as the costs are shown in the books. The problem is to police the latter, if said consultants are on paper paid by somebody else to perform a different task.

[DaveKillens]

And do you think that a company such as Toyota or BMW or Ferrari will open ALL of their books for close scrutiny by the FIA? Because to truly enforce any caps on spending, the entire corporation has to be scrutinized under a microscope.

[donskar]

And do you think that a company such as Toyota or BMW or Ferrari will open ALL of their books for close scrutiny by the FIA? Because to truly enforce any caps on spending, the entire corporation has to be scrutinized under a microscope.

The voice of sanity.

Furthermore, you can NOT, IMHO, have both the pinnacle of motor sports (or whatever silly cliche you'd like to apply) AND severe restrictions -- either technical or financial. The teams and individuals who BELONG in F1 will push the limits of technology and the rules. That is -- IMHO -- what we expect and WANT from F1. For others, I suggest FF or FV.

[alex1015]

Furthermore, you can NOT, IMHO, have both the pinnacle of motor sports (or whatever silly cliche you'd like to apply) AND severe restrictions -- either technical or financial. The teams and individuals who BELONG in F1 will push the limits of technology and the rules. That is -- IMHO -- what we expect and WANT from F1. For others, I suggest FF or FV.

Well said, unfortunately people seem to believe that spec transmissions, frozen aero and engines will help improve the show. I think they aren't realizing that whatever team does well when everything is frozen will continue to do well. Not to mention the suppressed innovation.

[mx_tifoso]

I think they aren't realizing that whatever team does well when everything is frozen will continue to do well.

If most everything gets frozen like the engines, we´re going to see the same thing occur: most if not all manufacturers being able to upgrade and improve X component(s). So freezes don´t really freeze anything persé, but just slow down progress.

Take this for instance, Renault is being allowed to improve their engine for 2009. It just comes to show that each and every time a team claims to be at a disadvantage the FiA is going to allow them to progress, albeit at a slower pace. Freezes plus severely limited testing are only going to hinder smaller teams research and development. The rich stay rich while the poor stay poor.

Silly politics make everything less enjoyable, Formula One not excluded.

[WhiteBlue]

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[WhiteBlue]

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[WhiteBlue]

I believe that many people still don't understand the way the politicking works nowadays in F1. There is certainly the potential for Ferrari to land a mayor screw up if the get KERS wrong and if KERS had been pretty much unlimited in Power and capacity. The way it is implemented in 2009 shows the lobbying power of the top teams. They have made sure years ago that new technology can only be introduced in minute steps. And they kept the door open to standardize the whole thing in case they miss the boat and have to level the playing field in their own favor.

[Carlos]

A way around the testing ban? Well Yes. Pay off Bernie and Max. With a sizable packet. To look the other way. Make one of those special concessions like the extra payments to that team from Italy. Starting money and TV rights. That's what it's about. Include the show for the casual fan. Did I just say that out loud? Did I just type it? Deliberate provocation I say.

DaveKillens has a point. Corporate transparency. It would require transparency. Hard to find. Why ... see through blouses will come back in style before we see any transparent corporate entity. D**m sight more attractive. Not the bosom collusion rampant in F1, the business kind. At least to a gentleman. Unless he's thinking out loud.

[ESPImperium]

I recon that Ferarri/STR and Renault/RBR are going to be the 4 teams without KERS untill as late as Monaco or even Istanbul, but the thing is that i feel that those are the teams that will have a advantage in the eartly stages of 09 as i feel there will be a few KERS related retirements in the first 3 rounds of next years champoinchip with either the KERS failing or drivers activating KERS too late and ploughing into other drivers.

Thats my opinion.

But i feel that the teams that havnt got KERS at the start of the 2009 season will be the ones that ditch it in the 2010 season.