Fiat buy 35% of Chrysler!

[Conceptual]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... s_business

So, are we going to see any Ferrari's produced un the US? Is this going to lead to Luca di Montezelmo pushing for US/Canadian GP's?

The article states that although Fiat has only bought 35% stake, it is done with the intent of eventually gaining full control.

What does this give Fiat? I don't understand if they are bargain shopping, or if there is seriously a major advantage to come from this.

I am very interested in anyone elses perspective on this point!

[NDR008]

I think this article is better explaining to the point the benefits for either side:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7839542.stm

[modbaraban]

That's some irony! About 6 years ago FIAT was nearly bought by a US manufacturer and now they buy one.

[mx_tifoso]

Ugh, Chrysler...

Although I hope this leads to FIAT's being sold in the US.

[G-Rock]

I live in Canada and I'm hoping that Alfa Romeo will return to North America. Maybe this takeover will make this even more possible.
I'm holding out for an Alfa 159. Is it a car worth waiting for? I don't have any experience with them.

[Belatti]

So, are we going to see any Ferrari's produced un the US?

I hope not! Ferrari doesnt build front engined 7L V8s cars with 500HP.

Ugh, Chrysler...

Although I hope this leads to FIAT's being sold in the US.

I hope so! US citizens should begin using 1.4L lil´n´lite missils with 90HP rather than 3L V6 boats with 150HP.

I dont wanna argue but US manufacturer car design concepts have always been awful from my engineering point of view. This is just my opinion and it is actually being changed thanks maybe to Toyota and Honda selling a lot of cars there. V8s were replaced by V6s and I hope they will eventually be replaced by 4 bangers, letting big engines for sport cars and segment D.

On the contruary, BMW, Audi and Mercedes has been increasing its engines and car sizes and this gets me annoyed. Just compare the last BMW M3 with its 3 predecessors...

I'm holding out for an Alfa 159. Is it a car worth waiting for? I don't have any experience with them.

Alfas are beautiful, just look at this (insert adjective for indescriptible beauty here................) car:



Althoug the product/price ratio at least here in Argentina is far from being the best. I would have any of the Germans for the same money.

[WhiteBlue]

I wish them more luck than Mercedes. Chrysler is simply buying more efficient models which they do not need to develop for shares that do not have much value anyway. Fiat will sell eventually in North America which they failed to do in relevant quantities so far. The question is: Will this actually work out in terms of technology transfer. It is very difficult to do this from Europe to the USA as I have discovered for myself some time ago.

[Conceptual]

I wish them more luck than Mercedes. Chrysler is simply buying more efficient models which they do not need to develop for shares that do not have much value anyway. Fiat will sell eventually in North America which they failed to do in relevant quantities so far. The question is: Will this actually work out in terms of technology transfer. It is very difficult to do this from Europe to the USA as I have discovered for myself some time ago.

Why difficult?

[WhiteBlue]

There are vastly different standards involved in everything that goes on in dayly life. So you start making changes to accomodate the different paper sizes, next you realize that Americans do not use large drawings, so further changes on the views and drawings are made. The next step comes with the dicovery that all systems are different and that the product cannot be produced with the same ERP system support. Some supplies get localized and 12 month into the project you have realized that you have a different product that gained an independant option list. After 24 month nothing is compatible any more and you have a one off effort for some products that are cut off from the original development and have their own life. If that is what you wanted all along then it is fine. If you wanted to just make the product in Detroit as it was made in Turin you have failed.

[donskar]

I live in Canada and I'm hoping that Alfa Romeo will return to North America. Maybe this takeover will make this even more possible.
I'm holding out for an Alfa 159. Is it a car worth waiting for? I don't have any experience with them.

They are returning to the US. It's a done deal.

[donskar]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... s_business

So, are we going to see any Ferrari's produced un the US? Is this going to lead to Luca di Montezelmo pushing for US/Canadian GP's?
NO.

The article states that although Fiat has only bought 35% stake, it is done with the intent of eventually gaining full control.
They have the right to buy up to 55% -- although the first 35% cost them no cash at all. Mercedes (Daimler Benz -- sorry) own 19.9% and would like to sell, but have found no takers.

What does this give Fiat? I don't understand if they are bargain shopping, or if there is seriously a major advantage to come from this.

I am very interested in anyone elses perspective on this point!

Fiat is on record as saying that in two years there will be only six large auto manufacturers (leaving out the likes of Lotus, Noble, etc, I assume!) AND that survival will require the production of at least 5.5 million units per year. The last year for which complete stats are available is 2007. In 2007 Fiat and Chrysler combined sold over 5.5 million units, and would have been #5 worldwide.

Fiat gains a large (one might say bloated) US sales network, service centers, training establishments, parts storage and distribution network, etc. They should be able to enter the US market in a meaningful way, with lower cost and ramp-up time than if they had come in "cold." No, it will not be simple or easy, but there are huge advantages if they pull off this marriage with some careful planning.

Chrysler gains access to Fiat's economical, environmentally friendy power plants and small/medium sized platforms. Their underutilized manufacturing capacity can be used to build Fiats, while they build Chrysler (or Dodge) badged Pandas and 500s, et al.

Chrysler has a proud heritage in advanced auto engineering (American style, of course). But they have little background in building the kinds of cars the world needs -- Fiat does.

This could be good -- and the UAW (United Auto Workers labor union) has already come out in favor of this union.

[ginsu]

I agree. As an American, I believe we have been starved for a good crop of small cars. I'm sick of people with their vans, pickup trucks (always with an empty bed), and SUVs taking up huge amounts of space on the road and on the streets. Don't people realize that America is not like it was in the '50s? I hate these huge vehicles when nobody does anything but drive alone in them.

I can't count the number of times I've seen a huge V8 Ford, or Chevy with nothing in the bed and not towing anything. Essentially, unless you hauling a load a pickup truck is virtually useless, and the ride is crap because of the leaf spring rear suspension and/or solid beam axle. I'm not saying pickups are useless, but I know for certain it's a huge waste to drive such big heavy objects without a specfic reason.

I would love to see more Americans adapt a 'euro' model, I'd love to see lots of small cars and people being conservative and intelligent with their purchasing power. The era of spend and forget America is gone, and it damn well should be. We will all remember how much we wasted and how little we appreciated, but we will
still know that we lived through some good times as Americans with loose credit.

[Conceptual]

I agree. As an American, I believe we have been starved for a good crop of small cars. I'm sick of people with their vans, pickup trucks (always with an empty bed), and SUVs taking up huge amounts of space on the road and on the streets. Don't people realize that America is not like it was in the '50s? I hate these huge vehicles when nobody does anything but drive alone in them.

I can't count the number of times I've seen a huge V8 Ford, or Chevy with nothing in the bed and not towing anything. Essentially, unless you hauling a load a pickup truck is virtually useless, and the ride is crap because of the leaf spring rear suspension and/or solid beam axle. I'm not saying pickups are useless, but I know for certain it's a huge waste to drive such big heavy objects without a specfic reason.

I would love to see more Americans adapt a 'euro' model, I'd love to see lots of small cars and people being conservative and intelligent with their purchasing power. The era of spend and forget America is gone, and it damn well should be. We will all remember how much we wasted and how little we appreciated, but we will
still know that we lived through some good times as Americans with loose credit.

It's not the people, its the regulations and the fact that in the USA, money is more important than people, and there are deffinately laws that prove just that.

If I were Fiat, I would be very careful in getting in too deep with Chrysler, because of the legacy costs surrounding the UAW. In the US, associations like that can be strong armed by the union labor laws into forcing unions onto unwilling partners. I have seen this practice first hand, and I must say that I was very disgusted since I invested 4 years of my life to help build that business, and after one contracted job, the union blasted us, and they went into bankruptcy fighting them in court...

Anyways, I hope that Dodge becomes just a truck line, Chrysler becomes a luxury line, and Plymouth becomes the economy line, all using the Fiat drivetrains (well, maybe keep the new Hemi...)

I just hope that it doesn't bring down Fiat. This quagmire of a resession that Chrysler is a large part of has all the markings of a money pit that will NEVER be filled....

[jddh1]

I ride my Vespa 50cc to work and around town for small errands (when the weather is not too bad). It's so much fun. I won't buy a "Fiat" because of my Vespa and the Volvo I have for big trips, but I will strongly recommend it to others. I remember driving those Puntos back in Europe and it was cool. I think they can do wonders in terms of New York City parking and even commuting in and out of Manhattan.

[jon-mullen]

Chrysler has a proud heritage in advanced auto engineering (American style, of course). But they have little background in building the kinds of cars the world needs -- Fiat does.

Are you honestly saying I don't need a 370 in^3 ESF HEMI V8 to get myself and my books to school? That's crazy talk! Every US American knows the point of having a car is to be loud, fast, and consume as much of the earth's resources as possible. Piss poor aero helps as well.

Nah, in all seriousness, though, the Big 3 blew a major opportunity to get people to think differently about transportation. Now gas is (somewhat) cheap again and the F150 is still America's best-seller. Of course it was all a fix; we were getting robbed blind by the gas companies, who were hedging their bets that Obama would be elected and tax them.

Hopefully Chrysler can use Fiat's buying them as an EXCUSE to make the kind of cars THEY THINK Americans don't want but have never had a chance to buy.

Edit: also, I believe they said on Top Gear that your Alfa drives like a piece of art (not well).