Cosworth to get higher rev limit?

[KiwiF1]

This from the article FIA publish today's communication with FOTA.

"Recent discussions and analysis have however shown that Cosworth's engine to be used by several teams in 2010 may not be up to par with the others, and as a result may be given a higher rev limit to equalise their performances."

That in my opinion goes against everything F1 is about, the engines arent supposed to be all the same, especially if it means having two sets of rules to allow cosworth to keep up!!... Why not just cut to the chase and make it a one make series max?

Anybody else feel this way?

[James_graham]

I think a one make series would be really bad! therefore max is BAD

Need the competition to push technology forward. So i agree with you there!

It is silly to say Cosworth hve the engine tender and only now let them develop. As the other thread has been saying, there is a reliability issue with the new engines!

DOes this also mean that they will be developing the engine throughout the year? a little unfair really!

[gridwalker]

In an engine freeze scenario, equalisation makes some sense, but this takes away from the competition aspect of formula one. Allowing an exemption to certain rules for one engine manufacturer in the name of equalising performance is simply ludicrous : surely Cosworth have nearly 9 months to make improvements to their engine?

If a company as experienced as cosworth can't make a massive leap forwards in that time (bearing in mind that the basic engine designs have been frozen since they left F1) then why are they considering returning?

Balancing the costs against allowing competition is very tricky & I believe that the FIA have struck the wrong balance. Personally, I'd say homologate engine design for a year at a time : this way, you don't have a mid-season arms-race, but you retain the potential for innovation and improvement.

[James_graham]

That is a brilliant idea acutally only problem I can see is how do you stop teams developing all year round.

I really liek the idea tho!

Renault were allowed to makechanges to the engine last year!

[PNSD]

Forget 9 months!

Cosworth have had since their departure in 2006 to improve the engine. It has been said they have done work on it because of the hope that again one day they could supply a V8 to F1. They did not just take out the Williams and stick on some shelf.

Granting them free reign on engine development is an absolute farce!

Unless they can provide numerical data and full analysis with the help of another engine supplier as to why they would need that engine development then fair enough. Renault did, and Honda were granted the privalege also. However, having the time they have had to develop you would think they would at the very least be on par with the current engines.

Besides that for the first quarter of 2006 the Cosworth could have been considered the strongest, well most powerful engine! Though not amazingly reliable it was impressive!

[gridwalker]

That is a brilliant idea acutally only problem I can see is how do you stop teams developing all year round.

I really liek the idea tho!

Renault were allowed to makechanges to the engine last year!

The design and development process would be ongoing over a whole year, but the pressure of bringing new iterations to each race would be released. The time and effort would be put into getting a single design right, rather than pushing through the design and production of many small incremental changes, thereby reducing required manhours, testing and overall expenditure.

I simply don't believe that Cosworth cannot get their engine up to spec in time for 2010 : this seems more like Max throwing a bone to the new teams now that FOTA seem more ready to compromise on a single regulation set.

If the low budget teams can't have their cost-cap regulations, then throwing them a theoretical engine advantage might keep them happy.

[wesley123]

I dont think it is fair, i mean, they are going to run newer, more developped engines, so they probably have a power gain already, and then stil higher revs, that isnt fair at all.

[ESPImperium]

I think that they should be allowed to develop the engine a little, but also prove its relyability and get some better fuel consumption out of it.

The FIA should have bought 1 or 2 2006 Williams FW28s and put the 2006 spec engine in them and got them to run setsing on them from now till the start of next season to get proper numerical data, and also to homologate the engine for a certain date, say at the end of the Brazilian GP, like in 2007 for the 2008 engines, the engines would have been up to par.

Also they should have came to an aggrement with the FOTA teams to do this, and for them to verify the data within a +/- variance of 3.3%. If the Cosworth CA2006 2.4 V8 4 Series engine that was in the back of the FW28 was miles down on the performance and the data could prove that it would be decent and fair to allow them to use 2008 engine rules (engines last 2 race weekends) or follow 2009 rules, but with 2008 RPM capping or run them at 18,500rpm no more.

This is another farce that needs a cool head and some level-headed constructive modeling. Otherwise, i just dont know what could happen. 2005 Indionapolis all over again?!?!

One question, Where did all the good and decent Honda engine people go when Brawn let them go at the start of the season??? Shurly some of them are arround to help out with the Cosworth engines???

[Shaddock]

FOTA should all cough up $20mil each and buy Cosworth. This would stop Mad Max from introducing the budget cap.

[natef1]

This is yet more A1GP thinking from Max.

Surely it's Cosworth's own fault if they turn up with an underpowered engine? As previously stated in the thread, they've had months since they had the tender, but only now thinking about improving their engines?

[meves]

FOTA should all cough up $20mil each and buy Cosworth. This would stop Mad Max from introducing the budget cap.

I think you'll find that is the plan. If Max can prove to the teams that the cosworth engine is better than theirs then he will force them all to move to a standard engine, which none of them want. I like the teams having their own engine, it allows for different packaging and a glorious array of engine notes. Why would we want to lose that? The engines have been limited a lot anyway and if Max gets back in and soem engine developement is allowed again then I'd hate to see all that experience lost from all the teams.

I agree costs can't go too far but football survives on far higher costs than 45m euros, I think that this engine issue will cause another year or compliants and controversies (if any teams survive) which is the last thing F1 needs. Max's quote is below and I think it's the final sign that he has lost it

'As explained (and we thought agreed) at the 11 June meeting, the Cosworth has to be allowed to run without limitation in 2010 (ie. the 2006 duty cycle for a 2006 engine), because Cosworth have neither the time nor the resources to retune for 2010. Any engineer will confirm that this will not give the relevant teams any competitive advantage whatsoever.'

If that quote is true the case then let engine development begin for all teams for a year...

[jesterdog]

Just because your engine is falling a little short doesn't guarantee a spot in last place. Just look at Mclaren's season...

[ESPImperium]

Just because your engine is falling a little short doesn't guarantee a spot in last place. Just look at Mclaren's season...

Thats not the engines fault, its the cars fault. Same engine in the Brawn and Force India and and the FO108W is probably the only strong point of the MP4/24.

Dont say the same with STR as well, as Ferarri are using them as the engine testing team for the 056 engine, probably giving them a massive wedge for the duty, and assurances they will probably get the new Ferarri KERS soon.

[jesterdog]

My point being, it ain't all engine that wins the race. If your chassis ain't setup, all the motor in the world won't get you to the checkered first...right?

How far off can Cosworth be anyway?

[meves]

My point being, it ain't all engine that wins the race. If your chassis ain't setup, all the motor in the world won't get you to the checkered first...right?

How far off can Cosworth be anyway?

You're right, if the aero is shocking or the mechanical grip isn't there then that can make a huge difference. However using McLaren as an example having more power (KERS) has enable Lewis to be further up the grid than the car deserves on occasion and Ferrari back in the 70's and 80's had some shocking cars that did quite well on certain circuits because of a power advantage.

It's one of those things, look at Williams this year, the car is floating around position 6-10 but with an engine with a significant power advantage they may well be first mroe oftne than not. The issue is it would be false advantage given by Max to justify a single engine. Now is that good for the sport?