New teams buying BMW/Toyota Chassis IP for 2010

[Conceptual]

Possible? Intelligent? Probable?

If I were a startup, I would be looking VERY hard at picking up the 2009 Toyota IP, since the chassis showed much promise, and would be a GREAT start to the 2010 season.

At least it is crash tested....

Thoughts?

[Pandamasque]

Toyota - why not. BMW.Sauber didn't really pull out as a team, so if BMW is in the list then any other team can be.

[Conceptual]

The RPM vid of Steve Matchett visiting USF1 showed some CFD work being done, and the model on screen looked an aweful like the BMW F1.09.

I just have to wonder if a new team picked up the Toyota IP, added a Cosworth powerplant, and a larger fuel tank, if they might actually be competitive in their first season...

[ESPImperium]

Could happen, but if i were a team such as Campos or Manor id be looking to do this exact thing. But in a diffrent way, basically buy the IP and all associated 2009 data. Would provide massive leaps and bounds if they can do such a thing.

Personally id rather have a blank sheet of papaer and little to no data and develop from there. Lotus have a arguable advatnage in Mike Gascgoyne as its cars TD/Designer as he has more long term personal data. But well see how their car looks to the VJM/02 & VJM/03 next year.

[roost89]

I don't think it'd work based purely on the fact that STR are saying that there're so very few parts that they can take over from this years car to next years for their own design.

Franz Tost:
"From the financial point is view it would be good if they find some carry-over parts, and also on the performance side as the [2009] car looks quite fast. Unfortunately as far as I can see up to now, there are not so many carry-over parts"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80104
Q. But some other teams have said that there is a lot that can be carried over from this year...

FT: Yes, there are carry-over parts.

Q. You don't have to make every single bit different to prove you're an independent constructor?

FT: Hopefully not, from the financial point is view it would be good if they find some carry-over parts, and also on the performance side the car looks quite fast. Unfortunately as far as I can see up to now, there are not so many carry-over parts.

Realistically, how useful is it to you have plans for a year old car when the changes are large? Greater weight, longer wheelbase, different ballast layout, different front tyres.

[pipex]

If i were a new team i would think about the possibility of buying the partial design of the 2010 machine. I suppose that some progress has been made these months.

[Conceptual]

I don't think it'd work based purely on the fact that STR are saying that there're so very few parts that they can take over from this years car to next years for their own design.

Franz Tost:
"From the financial point is view it would be good if they find some carry-over parts, and also on the performance side as the [2009] car looks quite fast. Unfortunately as far as I can see up to now, there are not so many carry-over parts"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80104
Q. But some other teams have said that there is a lot that can be carried over from this year...

FT: Yes, there are carry-over parts.

Q. You don't have to make every single bit different to prove you're an independent constructor?

FT: Hopefully not, from the financial point is view it would be good if they find some carry-over parts, and also on the performance side the car looks quite fast. Unfortunately as far as I can see up to now, there are not so many carry-over parts.

Realistically, how useful is it to you have plans for a year old car when the changes are large? Greater weight, longer wheelbase, different ballast layout, different front tyres.

I would expect much of it would carry over. In STR's case, they have to go out of their way to NOT look like a RBR because of their shared design loophole being closed.

Buying Toyota's IP would not be an issue, since it will not be run by Toyota in 2010. And if anything, the stretching of the car by 8 inches or so to include more fuel should have very little effect on things like suspension parts, front wing, nose cone, underfloor, DDD, engine cover and rear wing.

I know that it would have to be re-optimized, but I would expect re-optimisation to be much simpler than designing from scratch with ZERO testing data.

[Fil]

I don't think it'd work based purely on the fact that STR are saying that there're so very few parts that they can take over from this years car to next years for their own design.

Realistically, how useful is it to you have plans for a year old car when the changes are large? Greater weight, longer wheelbase, different ballast layout, different front tyres.

I would expect much of it would carry over.

in STR's and RBR's case the '09 car was never designed with the DDD in mind, largely incompatible when initial fitments were discussed, and definitely not a design that could be optimised for its use. i think that's why there is little carry-over there. the same is said of Ferrari, hence them giving up on the 09 car and admitting the '10 car is very different.

TF109 was built around the DDD, so there's a greater chance of more carry-over design.

[dp35]

Funny - I started a thread on this topic a long time ago, someone complained that it should've been included in the "Toyota's leaving F1" thread, and it disapeared. Oh well.

I agree, and my original point was that since USF1 only seems like they're "pretending" to design their own cars, they would be brilliant to acquire as much of Toyota as possible. Not only the obvious things like IP and useable car parts, but also computer hardware, tools, trucks, hospitality stuff, etc.

[Richard]

I would expect much of it would carry over. In STR's case, they have to go out of their way to NOT look like a RBR because of their shared design loophole being closed.

I missed that bit... any more on that?

edit to add:

With the 2008 Concorde Agreement outlawing customer cars from 2010 onwards, Dietrich Mateschitz has put the Toro Rosso team up for sale. He is aiming to secure a buyer by the end of 2009, with the team continuing in its present guise until then.

[Pandamasque]

*Ahem*

Toyota consider selling 2010 F1 chassis design

Completed TF110 concept could be made available to other teams following Cologne teams departure

racecar-engineering.com

[pipex]

Which team will be interested? This year the Toyota wasn't too bad, it would be interesting if one of the new teams could "recycle" the 2010 design...

[ISLAMATRON]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3233.shtml

looks like the Lola car might be up for sale too

[ESPImperium]

I think that the Toyota design may be bought by STR as then they would have a fully developed car design, one that wouldnt look like a RB6 and would be compeditive. The Lola design will probably go to USF1 as they need a design. I am surprised that they havnt signed a deal with Lola to design the car for the first so many years, then springboard from there.

Manors design will be done purly from CFD with no wind-tunnel numbers from what ive heard.

If i were STR, what id do is try to get as many of the Toyota design team as i can with its IP and go from there, a good car would come about. And as a total juxtaposistion, it would be a Toyota with a Ferarri power plant, whitch eludes to another spy gate scandal.

[xpensive]

Picking up an xisting design could be seen like a quick fix, but the implementation of somebody elses IP might not be that easy after all, when you first of all have to build the car accordingly. Furthermore, I can imagine that a lot of "reverse-engineering" needs to be done anyway, all in order to understand the design as well as future developments properly?

Unless you can get the engineers as well, but better off buying the entire team, me thinks.