Eco F1

[tempest]

Ok, so we know that one day we will run out of petrol, and we also know that racing improves the breed, so why not open the rules up to allow hybrids and diesels to compete too. I see it working like this:
Under the new rules we only have 2.4L V8s but if a manufacturer is prepared to take a capacity cut to say a 2L V6 then they can run electric motors in the front wheels to make a 4WD hybrid car. Or to counteract the performance loss inherent in diesel a 4L V8 or 2.5L turbo with a maximum boost limit could make it a lot more intersting.
Heres the trick though, a manufacturer is only allowed to use the technology if they have a road car that also uses something relating to it. This means that Ferarri are stuck with a petrol as this is all they do, while Honda and Toyota can build hybrids, BMW, renault, Merc, and Ford (Jag) can have diesels.

Then we would see the technology moving in new directions and it would be very interesting to see the BMW diesel leading the Honda Hybrid from the Ferarri Petrol 2.4

[pompelmo]

Come on! Diesel, hybrid, electric!
I don't give a damn if we run out of fuel!
F1 fans like me, like the sound of these petrol engines, smooth smell of petrol and so on!
So I don't like the idea of "eco F1"

[Monstrobolaxa]

Humm...just one question if we run out of fuel....it means that the world would be out of petrolium.....isn't Diesel also made from petrolium? unless you consider bio-diesel (made from canola or sun flowers)

[tempest]

Fair call monstro, but living in portugal you should know better than us aussies that you go much further on a litre of diesel than a litre of petrol, imagine if the type of development that went into the petrol in the 20th century went into hybrids and diesels in the early 21st to extend what we still have. Sorry to sound all greenie, i love the smell of petrol too, but i also like to see development, something that F1 is starting to run out of.

[akbar21881]

Monstro,your idea is definitely interesting.F1 is supposed to be pinacle in automotive technology and hybrid and diesel surely has the potential to be develop to be credible racing technology.

I dont mind if F1 doesnt smell petrol anymore,as long as the car reach 350kmh in straight and hug the apex as they are now,it would be interesting,no matter what type of propulsion they used.

Its true,one day,petrol will be in shortage(is it?I'm not sure).In 20 years time,I'm sure F1 will be different from they are now.

[Monstrobolaxa]

this doesn't have any thing to do with the topic....how much is fuel in the members countries? (n US dolars)
- fuel - 1,25 /litre
- diesel - 0,90 /litre (around this not sure)

[tempest]

Well down here the price is about the same for both about $1 aus/ litre (I think at the moment about 72 US cents) but in my car (3.8L V6, 1400kgs) a tank lasts about 5-600kms and equivalent diesels get about 1200, also diesels make a lot more torque than same capacity petty's so you can gear them a lot higher (maybe why they use less fuel, Im not sure). anyway the point is that this tech is going to become more imporant than ever in the next 20 years and I want to see it racing! I dont care if its not in F1, i was so disapointed when chysler pulled out of le mans when they were going to run the hybrid with regenerative braking.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Let me guess...you have an automatic car!?

My car a VW Polo 1.4 I've done 1350 Km on a tank (45litres)....driving between 90 and 120 km/h....I think I can do slightly more because during that test about 10% of the whole tank was done in traffic (between 0 and 50km/h )!

But the same volume engine in a diesel version...even having higher torque has less power.....

[tempest]

Yeah, its auto. 4sd too, thats about half an F1 car:P But it doesnt matter too much on the highway, the manuals get 8.8l/100 i get 9. not bad for a 5.5m long 170hp station wagon (with a surfboard on top and the window wound down)

[Monstrobolaxa]

With an engine that size....you had to have a auto.... ...me and my dad rented a car 2 summers ago in Canada a 1.4L with a auto trans....wow the car was so slow!!!!What the fu**? putting a auto on a small engine...it doesn't have enough torque to produce the oil flow the torque converter needs.

Finally someone that understands something of aero on road cars!!!!! I've heard a lot of people saying that turning on the air conditioner raises the fuel consumption...well it does....but if you open the window....you'll increase drag...and fuel consumption in order to maintain your speed!

[NDR008]

excuse me, but even my ex-subaru 700 2 cylinder 700cc engine had a manual 4 speed tranny (i said ex-subaru coz i crashed her up at 80mph 2 days ago).
Anyway, there is no such thing as too small an engine that must have an AT. Here in malta, it is rare that we see an AT, only recent jap imports have ATs.
I myself drive a 1.3L - 4E-FTE off a Starlet GT.
1331cc DOHC 16valve Turbo Intercooled, 5speed
Goes 0-60mph: 6.9sec (stock values).

[Monstrobolaxa]

Yes but in any case the bigger the engine is the better....

My point is that if you compare the same engine with a manual gearbox or a AT the manual gearbox will have a bigger aceleration...will use less gas for the same distance and will have a higher to end speed.

The thing with AT is that they use torque converters that work based on oil pressure....and small engines have a harder time to create the amount of flow necessary!

[crystalclear]

No

They can make ATs now with friction launch, they don't need 'power sapping device' torque converters. The Antonov 4th generation 6-speed is 250mm long and has a mechanical efficiency of over 92%. With drive-by-wire, the difference between a manual transmission and an automatic transmission is completely eroded.

I have my name down for a car with a 7-speed dual clutch: high mechanical efficiency, and no torque interruption during gear changes, so none of that messing about with clutches and losing power during gearchanges, even if they stick an H gate on it.

Gearboxes are changing. Left foot free for braking, as god intended

[Monstrobolaxa]

[img]
Gearboxes are changing. Left foot free for braking, as god intended

Well it's all down to the feel....on the road I prefer the 3 pedals....but on the track I prefer 2....it's all down in the way you drive....personally I don't like to drive too fast on the road....there are specific places to go as fast as we can....race tracks!

About the friction launch...interesting I'd never heard of it! thanks...so now there are no small engines for AT.


If anyone finds anything about this friction launch gizmos.....post a link! I'd like to learn a little more about it...

"Living and Learning"

[NDR008]

Street racing, or anywhere, i always want 3 pedals under my feet! Almost all chicks can drive an AT. Fewer can drive a shifter. Almost none can master a shifter (i mean all the techniques involved with that too, like Toe-in-Heel-out).