Mindardi Engine

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Carbon
Carbon
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 19:02
Location: Vancouver, BC

Mindardi Engine

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Is Minardi using the same engine as the Jaguar this year, or is it an older version?

I see they have just renewed their contract with Cosworth for '05, that will see Minardi using the same powerplant as Jag in the coming year.

Monstrobolaxa
Monstrobolaxa
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Joined: 28 Dec 2002, 23:36
Location: Covilhã, Portugal (and sometimes in Évora)

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Minardi and Jordan are using a slighter older version of the Jaguar engine.

JAG - Cosworth CR6

Jordan - CRS2 - this is the came engine as the CR5 (previously used by JAG, with same changes for the Jordan chassis and in order to last the whole weekend)

Minardi - CR3L -a derivative of the engine that ran in the Jaguar for the first half of 2002, with changes to last the whole weekend

All this info can be checked out at:

http://www.cosworth.com

Carbon
Carbon
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 19:02
Location: Vancouver, BC

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Thanks Monstroboloxa.

Hopefully Minardi can crawl up a little further with this engine derivitive.

Beostar
Beostar
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Joined: 30 Aug 2003, 19:08
Location: Belgium

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I hope the TJ model brings Minardi to the top next year.
"The track is mine you may have it when I'm done"
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Steven
Owner
Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

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Minardi really need this to keep in touch with the manufacturer backed teams.
I was kind of surprised during the Spa race this weekend how closely the Minardi followed behind Jordan. I was under the impression the difference was rather big, but that wasn't the case during the race there.
I don't really know the difference in power at the moment between Minardi and Jordan, but levelling their engines makes me think Minardi may do better than Jordan...

Monstrobolaxa
Monstrobolaxa
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Joined: 28 Dec 2002, 23:36
Location: Covilhã, Portugal (and sometimes in Évora)

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Humm....after reading a few times and diferent articles I really suspect that Minardi will not have the same engine as Jaguar for the whole season! Like Honda in 2001 suposedly Jordan and BAR had the same spec engine....but Jordan ended up running some races with a not latest spec engine.

To me what will happen is one of the following:

1 - Minardi keeps the engine that is launched at the start of the season and it isn't developed during the year;

or

2 - Minardi starts the season with the same spec engine as JAG and during the year it is left behind....using 1 or 2 specs behind JAG.

By past knowledge with some "oficial engine-sponsored teams" number 2 looks more likely due to the press release that looks very "partner-esc"....but beeing a costumer deal I'd really think that number 1 is the most likely. In any case number 1 is a much better deal then 2004 where they are racing with 2 year old engines.

But you always have:

3 - Minardi has the exact same spec as JAG during the whole year (which usually doesn't happen being a customer contract and not a works deal...the Ford Motor Group is more interested in seeing JAG suceed then a customer suceeding....but you never know!)

Now Jordan is going down the drain....probably if nor Mercedes nor Toyota sell afordable engines....probably Jordan will settle for the 2003 CR-6 Cosworth engine.

Stas
Stas
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Joined: 24 Nov 2004, 22:52

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New engine is not gonto help Minardi. First thing they have to du is to changge their aerodynamics. :twisted:

Monstrobolaxa
Monstrobolaxa
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Joined: 28 Dec 2002, 23:36
Location: Covilhã, Portugal (and sometimes in Évora)

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Well I've heard that Minardi has quite good aerdynamics....specially for the amout of money the have and spend in the wind tunnel.

In 2001 if not mistaken Minardi was considered one of the best cars on the grid aerodynamicly! (at least I recall reading it somewhere).

But you're right the new engine won't change alot cause in any case the new cosworth engine will be down on power.

tyler durten
tyler durten
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004, 01:37
Location: somewere i belong

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was in 2000 with gustaf brunner their chassi was very good one of the best in f1
remenber pain is temporary

Stas
Stas
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Joined: 24 Nov 2004, 22:52

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What is go into help Minarfi is old Arrows shassis. In 2003 Paul Stoddart buoght 3 cars from now defunct arrows team. This cars had best aerodymics in 2002. I dont no why he do dont use them. if you put goodd enine in them they night be competetve. :cry:

Scuderia-Russ
Scuderia-Russ
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Stas wrote:What is go into help Minarfi is old Arrows shassis. In 2003 Paul Stoddart buoght 3 cars from now defunct arrows team. This cars had best aerodymics in 2002. I dont no why he do dont use them. if you put goodd enine in them they night be competetve. :cry:
They were A23's if i remember correctly and he bought them to see if there were any secrets to unlock to potentially improve that years Minardi.An interesting approach to r+d :^o .

Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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Stas wrote: What is go into help Minarfi is old Arrows shassis. In 2003 Paul Stoddart buoght 3 cars from now defunct arrows team. This cars had best aerodymics in 2002. I dont no why he do dont use them. if you put goodd enine in them they night be competetve.
I thought you knew it, that car wasn’t faster than the PS03 when Verstappen made a comparative test with same tyres and same engine.
So basically you are suggesting that Minardi should use a 3 years old car they know little about and that wasn’t faster than the PS03 they used last year (which was basically a slightly evolved PS02 so also in 2002 the A23 wasn’t that much better than Minardi), hence isn’t surely better than the PS04, that, although is just a slight evolution of the PS03, is a good improvement according to Bruni.
Add to this that they then should modify the A23 to install the 90° engine instead of the 72° it was designed for and they should adapt the aerodynamics (without windtunnel data about the original car) to the 2005 rules.
Scuderia-Russ wrote: They were A23's if i remember correctly and he bought them to see if there were any secrets to unlock to potentially improve that years Minardi.An interesting approach to r+d
It was exclusively a Stoddart’s decision... as most of the idiocy in the last years...
I read an interview with Tredozi (technical director) and he said something like : mechanically there’s nothing we can learn from it, aerodynamically it generates more downforce because of the wind tunnel time Arrows spent on it, we don’t lack ideas we lack wind tunnel time.
I’ll look for the article with the exact quote but IIRC was in a newspaper so difficultly I still have it.

Guest
Guest
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What isaid was put some good engine i repeat good engine like Ferrari's or Honda's. _
A 23 generates more downforce than curent Minardi shassisa and they can upgrade it for fore downforce. :arrow:

Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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Guest wrote: What isaid was put some good engine i repeat good engine like Ferrari's or Honda's.
I think that if Minardi had the money to pay a Ferrari or Honda engine, they would probably have also the money to make more windtunnel testing and to make a better car without recycling a three years old chassis that wasn’t better than the chassis they raced last year.
Guest wrote: A23 generates more downforce than curent Minardi shassisa and they can upgrade it for fore downforce.
How do you know it ? The comparative test was between the A23 and the PS03 and it was basically a draw in term of speed on the track, even if the former was generating a bit more downforce. The PS04B is aerodynamically a bit better than the PS03 and is definitively faster on the track.
Furthermore next year rules will impose an increment of the height of aero parts in the area between the front wheels, everything will have to be 5 cm higher than the reference plane. Unfortunately the whole aero concept of the A23 is based on the tunnel formed by the keels reaching the reference plane under the nose. That means that the A23 is probably one of the cars suffering the most from the new rules.