2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

I believe, RB really missing Ric here. They are unable to fill his place for years. If RIC with RB, now RB would be leading both the WCC and WDC.

Now it is with Max only. WDC is in Max hands. So, it is up to him to grab or leave it.

They do not want a driver like RIC in the pther seat. Their goal is not to give the next guy a fair chance at being wdc. And im not trolling. It's just the way it is. Max is a big marketi g opportunity and Redbull needed him to be the youngest wdc, and youngest everything for them to stand out for marketing purposes. They could not care less about constructors titles because they dont make road cars. They need a guy, not a car to sell drinks.
So i dont see them getting 2 strong drivers for now. Maybe as long as Max is top tier. If Max drops off form they will bring in the next prodigy to canibalize max and chase him out of the team.

.
This is not true. They did not even want Riciardo to leave. They offered him everything he asked for so he would extend his contact. He himself chose not to.

At first Ricciardo agreed with the great contract Mateschitz offered him in a personal confersation.
At the day he had to sign the papers, he didn't show up and left Hungary and called from the plane to The USA he would not signed it.
RB gave him everything he wanted, but it wasn't enough. RB didn't want to loose Ricciardo.

[AeroDynamic]

Have a look at the other tracks that were changed due to covid? Australia and Japan? Are you saying red bull lost a track that they would comfortably win?
I don’t have any agenda. Some people for obvious reasons, just get all out of shape at the idea that the luck has been evening out across the season. I guess some don’t like that idea because it disrupts the narrative in their mind that is “my max would be so far ahead, that lucky Lewis!!”

But sure, max always wins with skill and because he’s a very good driver, and luck doesn’t help him. Only his competitors. That’s what the original guy was saying, and my post outlined how max has had a share of luck too, and it is balancing out. The weather happens by chance, like it did in Sochi, and crashes happen by chance, like it did in Imola. Some times these things happen and they help you out. Some max fans put all blame on Lewis for Silverstone, but that goes without saying. They don’t know how to see a racing incident unless max is predominantly to blame lol

The inters in Sochi were a gamble for some and less for others. you conveniently neglect the context of the situation: it came during a critical phase of the race with just a few laps remaining and it was a bigger call to make for some drivers than others. It wasn’t clear to everyone if they could make it to the end and just manage the wet part of the track. That’s why people stayed out and got caught out without any way to respond to it. It was a game of who dares, wins. I’m surprised this is even an argument. The weather wasn’t a feature of the race until the last 5 or so laps. It wasn’t a wet race. If you call max beating people who didn’t pit, “skill” and not lucky at the scenario handed to him that jumped him from 7th to 2nd, then that’s your very biased opinion, not gonna fly with people who look at it a bit more objectively though.

I’ll tell you what, let’s get the opinion on the rain on the race, from one of the formula 1 drivers who finished it. How about Max?

Luckily with the rain, it helped us to make that last jump

What was that max? Did you say luckily with the rain?

Say it again for your fans please.

Luckily, the call of course, to go from the slicks to the inters was the perfect one I think, the right lap, that gave me the positions to keep the car on track, of course. Because I had a few guys on my in lap.

The right time to switch to inters sounds like a gamble to me, Cheers max I won’t argue.

[Gillian]

Have a look at the other tracks that were changed due to covid? Australia and Japan? Are you saying red bull lost a track that they would comfortably win?
I don’t have any agenda. Some people for obvious reasons, just get all out of shape at the idea that the luck has been evening out across the season. I guess some don’t like that idea because it disrupts the narrative in their mind that is “my max would be so far ahead, that lucky Lewis!!”

But sure, max always wins with skill and because he’s a very good driver, and luck doesn’t help him. Only his competitors. That’s what the original guy was saying, and my post outlined how max has had a share of luck too, and it is balancing out. The weather happens by chance, like it did in Sochi, and crashes happen by chance, like it did in Imola. Some times these things happen and they help you out. Some max fans put all blame on Lewis for Silverstone, but that goes without saying. They don’t know how to see a racing incident unless max is predominantly to blame lol

The inters in Sochi were a gamble for some and less for others. you conveniently neglect the context of the situation: it came during a critical phase of the race with just a few laps remaining and it was a bigger call to make for some drivers than others. It wasn’t clear to everyone if they could make it to the end and just manage the wet part of the track. That’s why people stayed out and got caught out without any way to respond to it. It was a game of who dares, wins. I’m surprised this is even an argument. The weather wasn’t a feature of the race until the last 5 or so laps. It wasn’t a wet race. If you call max beating people who didn’t pit, “skill” and not lucky at the scenario handed to him that jumped him from 7th to 2nd, then that’s your very biased opinion, not gonna fly with people who look at it a bit more objectively though.

I’ll tell you what, let’s get the opinion on the rain on the race, from one of the formula 1 drivers who finished it. How about Max?

Luckily with the rain, it helped us to make that last jump

What was that max? Did you say luckily with the rain?

Say it again for your fans please.

Luckily, the call of course, to go from the slicks to the inters was the perfect one I think, the right lap, that gave me the positions to keep the car on track, of course. Because I had a few guys on my in lap.

The right time to switch to inters sounds like a gamble to me, Cheers max I won’t argue.

At this point I am not even sure who you are arguing with and I find the way you post disrespectful, very one-sided, lacking objectivity, taking things out of context and basically everything you are blaming others of. I don't really understand what you are trying to achieve?

I will address just this one thing because it's a good example of lacking objectivity and taking things out of context. Verstappen overtook Riciardo and Sainz while on slicks himself on a wet track. You are twisting this as if he only overtook them because of boxing for inters. That is factually untrue.

I also take offense with your "Verstappen fans" remark. I have been watching F1 before Verstappen was even born. I have huge respect for Hamilton. You can check my post history to verify that.

It is fine to disagree and have a good discussion but the way you are engaging in this thread is very offensive to me.

I will refrain from replying on this matter from now on.

[AeroDynamic]

Have a look at the other tracks that were changed due to covid? Australia and Japan? Are you saying red bull lost a track that they would comfortably win?
I don’t have any agenda. Some people for obvious reasons, just get all out of shape at the idea that the luck has been evening out across the season. I guess some don’t like that idea because it disrupts the narrative in their mind that is “my max would be so far ahead, that lucky Lewis!!”

But sure, max always wins with skill and because he’s a very good driver, and luck doesn’t help him. Only his competitors. That’s what the original guy was saying, and my post outlined how max has had a share of luck too, and it is balancing out. The weather happens by chance, like it did in Sochi, and crashes happen by chance, like it did in Imola. Some times these things happen and they help you out. Some max fans put all blame on Lewis for Silverstone, but that goes without saying. They don’t know how to see a racing incident unless max is predominantly to blame lol

The inters in Sochi were a gamble for some and less for others. you conveniently neglect the context of the situation: it came during a critical phase of the race with just a few laps remaining and it was a bigger call to make for some drivers than others. It wasn’t clear to everyone if they could make it to the end and just manage the wet part of the track. That’s why people stayed out and got caught out without any way to respond to it. It was a game of who dares, wins. I’m surprised this is even an argument. The weather wasn’t a feature of the race until the last 5 or so laps. It wasn’t a wet race. If you call max beating people who didn’t pit, “skill” and not lucky at the scenario handed to him that jumped him from 7th to 2nd, then that’s your very biased opinion, not gonna fly with people who look at it a bit more objectively though.

I’ll tell you what, let’s get the opinion on the rain on the race, from one of the formula 1 drivers who finished it. How about Max?

Luckily with the rain, it helped us to make that last jump

What was that max? Did you say luckily with the rain?

Say it again for your fans please.

Luckily, the call of course, to go from the slicks to the inters was the perfect one I think, the right lap, that gave me the positions to keep the car on track, of course. Because I had a few guys on my in lap.

The right time to switch to inters sounds like a gamble to me, Cheers max I won’t argue.

At this point I am not even sure who you are arguing with and I find the way you post disrespectful, very one-sided, lacking objectivity, taking things out of context and basically everything you are blaming others of. I don't really understand what you are trying to achieve?

I will address just this one thing because it's a good example of lacking objectivity and taking things out of context. Verstappen overtook Riciardo and Sainz while on slicks himself on a wet track. You are twisting this as if he only overtook them because of boxing for inters. That is factually untrue.

I also take offense with your "Verstappen fans" remark. I have been watching F1 before Verstappen was even born. I have huge respect for Hamilton. You can check my post history to verify that.

It is fine to disagree and have a good discussion but the way you are engaging in this thread is very offensive to me.

I will refrain from replying on this matter from now on.

Someone in the thread said “Lewis has all the luck & is leading” and I outlined that max has had a share of the luck as well. It didn’t seem objective at all. I’ve said Lewis has been lucky. So hardly one sided. But to some people that will find it one sided because it’s a post arguing against another one sided argument lol I wouldn’t call that trying to achieve something.

Yes he overtook 2 of the positions while all were on slicks. And why did he do that? Because the weather came in and people were trying to manage it (wrongly) because it came in at a critical phase of the race. The weather is what created this factor. I find you to be quite one sided in not acknowledging the luck that went his way. It’s amazing that some of you struggle to acknowledge it even if verstappen himself has no such problem acknowledging it

You’re using a strawman argument. Where did I say he overtook sainz and ricciardo because he went on inters? He pitted, came out in 7th again, and stormed to p2 on those that gambled it wrongly. I don’t know why you bring up the part about him overtaking on slicks, he still had to pit because if he had stayed out, he would’ve ended up like Leclerc and Norris. The inters allowed him to climb from p7 after pitting, to p2. That is factual.

[Gillian]

They do not want a driver like RIC in the pther seat. Their goal is not to give the next guy a fair chance at being wdc. And im not trolling. It's just the way it is. Max is a big marketi g opportunity and Redbull needed him to be the youngest wdc, and youngest everything for them to stand out for marketing purposes. They could not care less about constructors titles because they dont make road cars. They need a guy, not a car to sell drinks.
So i dont see them getting 2 strong drivers for now. Maybe as long as Max is top tier. If Max drops off form they will bring in the next prodigy to canibalize max and chase him out of the team.

.
This is not true. They did not even want Riciardo to leave. They offered him everything he asked for so he would extend his contact. He himself chose not to.

At first Ricciardo agreed with the great contract Mateschitz offered him in a personal confersation.
At the day he had to sign the papers, he didn't show up and left Hungary and called from the plane to The USA he would not signed it.
RB gave him everything he wanted, but it wasn't enough. RB didn't want to loose Ricciardo.

I envy your memory ha!

Such a shame really. Riciardo and Sainz, 2 gems lost by Red Bull.

[JordanMugen]

Such a shame really. Riciardo and Sainz, 2 gems lost by Red Bull.

Could it be that Marko is not as skilled as it seems?

Also will Red Bull really run with Porsche in 2026? I guess that's good, but it would be nice if Honda commits to some sponsorship and branding of their Honda / Red Bull engines between now and 2025, and that not too much Honda IP is transferred to Porsche via Red Bull High Performance Powertrains.

[etusch]

Such a shame really. Riciardo and Sainz, 2 gems lost by Red Bull.

Could it be that Marko is not as skilled as it seems?

Also will Red Bull really run with Porsche in 2026? I guess that's good, but it would be nice if Honda commits to some sponsorship and branding of their Honda / Red Bull engines between now and 2025, and that not too much Honda IP is transferred to Porsche via Red Bull High Performance Powertrains.

Of Course it is their job and they know how to run it but from my point of view, producing their own engine is a big opportunity for redbull and leaving this engine job to another brand again will be a big mistake. I think their hirings also show their intention. If you have facilities and human resource then no need to tide you job to someone else.

[selvam_e2002]

I believe, RB really missing Ric here. They are unable to fill his place for years. If RIC with RB, now RB would be leading both the WCC and WDC.

Now it is with Max only. WDC is in Max hands. So, it is up to him to grab or leave it.

They do not want a driver like RIC in the pther seat. Their goal is not to give the next guy a fair chance at being wdc. And im not trolling. It's just the way it is. Max is a big marketi g opportunity and Redbull needed him to be the youngest wdc, and youngest everything for them to stand out for marketing purposes. They could not care less about constructors titles because they dont make road cars. They need a guy, not a car to sell drinks.
So i dont see them getting 2 strong drivers for now. Maybe as long as Max is top tier. If Max drops off form they will bring in the next prodigy to canibalize max and chase him out of the team.

Yes. I agree. I forgot about RB is drink company

[Gillian]

Such a shame really. Riciardo and Sainz, 2 gems lost by Red Bull.

Could it be that Marko is not as skilled as it seems?

Also will Red Bull really run with Porsche in 2026? I guess that's good, but it would be nice if Honda commits to some sponsorship and branding of their Honda / Red Bull engines between now and 2025, and that not too much Honda IP is transferred to Porsche via Red Bull High Performance Powertrains.

Making sure Verstappen came to Red Bull was a good choice. I mean, imagine Mercedes snatching him... Riciardo leaving was inevitable I guess, though you can have an entire debate on what infuenced his decision. Not keeping Sainz onboard is a huge mistake but I am not sure what went wrong there. Not a lot of talent came to Red Bull after that but I feel like there haven't been really much talent to pick from for a few years. So I don't know how much you can blame Marko for all that? I personally don't really dare to give judgment on all that, I don't know a lot about it.

Besides that I do think some statements he makes are ridiculous and I don't really like the blame/cut-throat culture he/they seem to use. But my opinion is not worth a lot I think, can only say so much as an outsider.

[ringo]

Even if Daniel left on his own. It does not change the fact that Redbull were not treating him equally and made no efforts to get the two best drivers they can in the same car. They are fine with one top driver. We can see even how they retained Perez. They get a long along well and Perez though hungry is very humble and wise. He wont challenge Max until he fully comes to grips with the car and the team backs him. And they will never back him. He may just be driving that redbull in 2023 and 2024 as well then retire from racing.
Max will have it easy for years.
I would love to see them give Norris a chance. Though mclaren may well be a top team next year.

[Sieper]

Have a look at the other tracks that were changed due to covid? Australia and Japan? Are you saying red bull lost a track that they would comfortably win?
I don’t have any agenda. Some people for obvious reasons, just get all out of shape at the idea that the luck has been evening out across the season. I guess some don’t like that idea because it disrupts the narrative in their mind that is “my max would be so far ahead, that lucky Lewis!!”

But sure, max always wins with skill and because he’s a very good driver, and luck doesn’t help him. Only his competitors. That’s what the original guy was saying, and my post outlined how max has had a share of luck too, and it is balancing out. The weather happens by chance, like it did in Sochi, and crashes happen by chance, like it did in Imola. Some times these things happen and they help you out. Some max fans put all blame on Lewis for Silverstone, but that goes without saying. They don’t know how to see a racing incident unless max is predominantly to blame lol

The inters in Sochi were a gamble for some and less for others. you conveniently neglect the context of the situation: it came during a critical phase of the race with just a few laps remaining and it was a bigger call to make for some drivers than others. It wasn’t clear to everyone if they could make it to the end and just manage the wet part of the track. That’s why people stayed out and got caught out without any way to respond to it. It was a game of who dares, wins. I’m surprised this is even an argument. The weather wasn’t a feature of the race until the last 5 or so laps. It wasn’t a wet race. If you call max beating people who didn’t pit, “skill” and not lucky at the scenario handed to him that jumped him from 7th to 2nd, then that’s your very biased opinion, not gonna fly with people who look at it a bit more objectively though.

I’ll tell you what, let’s get the opinion on the rain on the race, from one of the formula 1 drivers who finished it. How about Max?

Luckily with the rain, it helped us to make that last jump

What was that max? Did you say luckily with the rain?

Say it again for your fans please.

Luckily, the call of course, to go from the slicks to the inters was the perfect one I think, the right lap, that gave me the positions to keep the car on track, of course. Because I had a few guys on my in lap.

The right time to switch to inters sounds like a gamble to me, Cheers max I won’t argue.

We can have a very long discussion about the race in Sochi, like a rained out Q2 giving everyone in the field free starting tires, brand new ones at that, thus killing the tire advantage Max had (especially on the bottom of the top 10, like the Ricciardo Alonso DRS train he got caught in that otherwise would have pitted away right in front of him on their red tires, and Max would have been right on the tail of Lewis right there and then, but if it weren’t for what happened in Silverstone Max wouldn’t have been at the back of the grid. What a nice luck.

[AeroDynamic]

Have a look at the other tracks that were changed due to covid? Australia and Japan? Are you saying red bull lost a track that they would comfortably win?
I don’t have any agenda. Some people for obvious reasons, just get all out of shape at the idea that the luck has been evening out across the season. I guess some don’t like that idea because it disrupts the narrative in their mind that is “my max would be so far ahead, that lucky Lewis!!”

But sure, max always wins with skill and because he’s a very good driver, and luck doesn’t help him. Only his competitors. That’s what the original guy was saying, and my post outlined how max has had a share of luck too, and it is balancing out. The weather happens by chance, like it did in Sochi, and crashes happen by chance, like it did in Imola. Some times these things happen and they help you out. Some max fans put all blame on Lewis for Silverstone, but that goes without saying. They don’t know how to see a racing incident unless max is predominantly to blame lol

The inters in Sochi were a gamble for some and less for others. you conveniently neglect the context of the situation: it came during a critical phase of the race with just a few laps remaining and it was a bigger call to make for some drivers than others. It wasn’t clear to everyone if they could make it to the end and just manage the wet part of the track. That’s why people stayed out and got caught out without any way to respond to it. It was a game of who dares, wins. I’m surprised this is even an argument. The weather wasn’t a feature of the race until the last 5 or so laps. It wasn’t a wet race. If you call max beating people who didn’t pit, “skill” and not lucky at the scenario handed to him that jumped him from 7th to 2nd, then that’s your very biased opinion, not gonna fly with people who look at it a bit more objectively though.

I’ll tell you what, let’s get the opinion on the rain on the race, from one of the formula 1 drivers who finished it. How about Max?

Luckily with the rain, it helped us to make that last jump

What was that max? Did you say luckily with the rain?

Say it again for your fans please.

Luckily, the call of course, to go from the slicks to the inters was the perfect one I think, the right lap, that gave me the positions to keep the car on track, of course. Because I had a few guys on my in lap.

The right time to switch to inters sounds like a gamble to me, Cheers max I won’t argue.

We can have a very long discussion about the race in Sochi, like a rained out Q2 giving everyone in the field free starting tires, brand new ones at that, thus killing the tire advantage Max had (especially on the bottom of the top 10, like the Ricciardo Alonso DRS train he got caught in that otherwise would have pitted away right in front of him on their red tires, and Max would have been right on the tail of Lewis right there and then, but if it weren’t for what happened in Silverstone Max wouldn’t have been at the back of the grid. What a nice luck.

I understand why you look at things from this point of view, I do get it.

Lewis has all the luck & is leading. This is his championship to lose

My bad. Thanks for explaining how this works to me. I understand how it works in this thread now, So, Let’s agree from here; Max only has bad luck, anybody else is lucky.

[ringo]

Yes it takes all the pressure of the expectations of winning this year. If Max loses it's because that good for nothing Hamilton was expected to win in the rocket ship W12 powered by lucky charms and rabbit's feet.

[etusch]

My bad. Thanks for explaining how this works to me. I understand how it works in this thread now, So, Let’s agree from here; Max only has bad luck, anybody else is lucky.

I think LuckyDynamic should be your nickname. It looks like you explain universe based on luck

[AeroDynamic]

My bad. Thanks for explaining how this works to me. I understand how it works in this thread now, So, Let’s agree from here; Max only has bad luck, anybody else is lucky.

I think LuckyDynamic should be your nickname. It looks like you explain universe based on luck

This camp has been obsessed with luck all season, that’s how we ended up discussing the lucky dynamic