2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

[etusch]

https://media.nu.nl/m/lqvxgsla923e_wd640.jpg

Looks great. Hope they can prepare a good suit for wdc race too

[Manoah2u]

.
So, does this mean that this is going to be the final update from Honda for the car? Or perhaps will RB come with it's final update for Turkey, and from there on it's all about settings and already produced wings and the team fully focuses on 2022? And this is why it's saying 'origato' / thanks on the wing?

This weekend was supposed to be the Japanese GP and it has been cancelled.
RB has therefore chosen this weekend to use this tribute to thank all Honda people who work for and in F1
for their excellent work and excellent cooperation.

All those questions you ask have absolutely nothing to do with this tribute.

aah that makes a lot of sense, i thought Turkey was instead of Singapore, but it's instead of Japan, that makes a whole lot of sense, thanks!

[Manoah2u]

And we can thank Red Bull for the current situation finally! Without them, Merc will still be cruising to another two titles.

people ignoring and forget Ferrari (including Vettel) the past few seasons and suddenly RBR is 'the' challenger. sure, every bit of 'excitement' is down to RedBull.....

yes sure they're definately competitive and pushing,
but let's not act like 2021 is the first moment ever since 2014 that Mercedes is under threat.

WC points from 2014 on. Mercedes was never under threat by Ferrari.
RBR is the first who are a threat to Mercedes this year.

Vettel

167 	278 	212 	317 	320 	240 	33 	35*

Hamilton

384 	381 	380 	363 	408 	413 	347 	246,5*

Max

0        49 	204 	168 	249 	278 	214 	244,5*

i suggest you go and watch both the 2017 and 2018 season and see when and where things went wrong, and compare it to what RBR is doing now.

And, not the very least - yes, Ferrari was supposedly 'caught cheating'. The very details of that never were publicised, it only was ever suggested, and things were dealt with in secret, which is offcourse very suspicious.

However, let's get 1 fact straight: Ferrari was never DSQ and neither their or their driver's points. In other words, in the end, it was accepted. However, they were forced to change things and it seriously impacted their performance, and not the least the internal coup of Binotto definately did not help.

RBR - through Honda - has just as much made the same 'leap' as Ferrari did, the only thing right now is that - untill now- Honda/RBR has not been under investigation on suspicions of cheating like Ferrari a few seasons back.
If for some reason however FIA declares Honda's updates or engine not conform the regulations and they need to change something, and that immediately hampers their performance - then they can end up JUST LIKE Ferrari.

I am not saying that they're cheating, i'm not saying they're not. I'm not saying Ferrari was, i'm not saying they weren't.
The truth remains, if Mercedes and/or other teams find something sus, complain to the FIA, and FIA decides that there's something to be done, things can turn around pretty hard.

Also, RBR's performance is greatly exegerated by Mercedes' pain in the regulation changes for 2021 regarding the cars rake, which obviously hurt Mercedes more than other teams.

Apply the same to 2017/2018 - the rake punishment, and then remove the FIA scrutiny and subsequent engine alterations of Ferrari's engine, and above all, hand Binotto and Arrivabene a Moretti and don't have Ferrari hotshots force LeClerc there, and you will have EXACTLY the same situation that we're finding ourselves in right now with RB.

RBR still has to finish beating Merc, at the moment Merc is quite ahead in the WCC, and Hamilton IS ahead of Max.

Much can still happen.

Either way, long story short: Yes, RBR is doing great and it's good to see competition. But let's leave the pink glasses for the my little pony club.

[Gillian]

people ignoring and forget Ferrari (including Vettel) the past few seasons and suddenly RBR is 'the' challenger. sure, every bit of 'excitement' is down to RedBull.....

yes sure they're definately competitive and pushing,
but let's not act like 2021 is the first moment ever since 2014 that Mercedes is under threat.

WC points from 2014 on. Mercedes was never under threat by Ferrari.
RBR is the first who are a threat to Mercedes this year.

Vettel

167 	278 	212 	317 	320 	240 	33 	35*

Hamilton

384 	381 	380 	363 	408 	413 	347 	246,5*

Max

0        49 	204 	168 	249 	278 	214 	244,5*

i suggest you go and watch both the 2017 and 2018 season and see when and where things went wrong, and compare it to what RBR is doing now.

And, not the very least - yes, Ferrari was supposedly 'caught cheating'. The very details of that never were publicised, it only was ever suggested, and things were dealt with in secret, which is offcourse very suspicious.

However, let's get 1 fact straight: Ferrari was never DSQ and neither their or their driver's points. In other words, in the end, it was accepted. However, they were forced to change things and it seriously impacted their performance, and not the least the internal coup of Binotto definately did not help.

RBR - through Honda - has just as much made the same 'leap' as Ferrari did, the only thing right now is that - untill now- Honda/RBR has not been under investigation on suspicions of cheating like Ferrari a few seasons back.
If for some reason however FIA declares Honda's updates or engine not conform the regulations and they need to change something, and that immediately hampers their performance - then they can end up JUST LIKE Ferrari.

I am not saying that they're cheating, i'm not saying they're not. I'm not saying Ferrari was, i'm not saying they weren't.
The truth remains, if Mercedes and/or other teams find something sus, complain to the FIA, and FIA decides that there's something to be done, things can turn around pretty hard.

Also, RBR's performance is greatly exegerated by Mercedes' pain in the regulation changes for 2021 regarding the cars rake, which obviously hurt Mercedes more than other teams.

Apply the same to 2017/2018 - the rake punishment, and then remove the FIA scrutiny and subsequent engine alterations of Ferrari's engine, and above all, hand Binotto and Arrivabene a Moretti and don't have Ferrari hotshots force LeClerc there, and you will have EXACTLY the same situation that we're finding ourselves in right now with RB.

RBR still has to finish beating Merc, at the moment Merc is quite ahead in the WCC, and Hamilton IS ahead of Max.

Much can still happen.

Either way, long story short: Yes, RBR is doing great and it's good to see competition. But let's leave the pink glasses for the my little pony club.

You make some good points. The statements Wouter make are true if looking at 2014 to 2016. Not so much beyond that.

I think the big difference between now and 2017 - 2019 is, like you also point out, Red Bull has not made a huge jump like Ferrari did back then. They where literally flying on the straights and the difference to the year before was huge. I still feel like if they had held back a little, they would not have been scrutinized as much. But alas...

This season is very different. The gap between Mercedes and Red Bull is really small and it is evident Mercedes has made a step backwards due to the rules change.

[Manoah2u]

Exactly. And it's all fun and games that Max himself claimed that if there was a Mercedes in their engine room, they'd be champs - Williams had that and look what happened. Aston/Racing Point. Mclaren has the Merc and is now pretty strong, but still just falling short.

In other words, it's really not just the engine. Mercedes thus has done something great with the chassis too, and from 2014-2020 things were 'fine' - but for 2021, suddenly, there has been a rule change (as suggested by some delibarately to improve championship battle) which hampers low-rake cars like the Mercedes more than any other (read: Mercedes is hurt, RBR is fine). SO, RBR is not doing anything more spectacular than Ferrari has been doing.

And as i've mentioned elsewhere too, there's still this minor thing that plagues my mind. However you put it, Hamilton is far, far more fatigued this year than he has EVER, EVER been.
He almost tumbled off the podium a few races ago and Ocon noticed and obviously got a bit worried even. Hamilton has been grasping for air, panting on multiple race finishes.
Compare to how physically he was 'normally' in the past, then one would say something has changed. It's not that unlikely that he is suffering from post-covid 'lungcovid' conditions, or perhaps something else. It might actually be part of the reason for difficult contract negotiations. Whatever the case, it's sufficiently defendable that Lewis is suffering this season from worse physical athletic state than he has compared to the previous seasons.

That would put him a bit in a 'handicapped' situation, and paired to the above, again, this would also 'exegerate' RedBull's achievements.

Am i glad RBR is challenging Mercedes? Again, yes, definately.

Still, there are 7 GP's to go, and that means at least 175 winning points to be made. Both can make 3 wins and the deciding factor then goes down not just to whom wins the last race,
but also about the tally of fastest lap points.

BTW, is there another sprint race left or are we done?

[SmallSoldier]

There will be a sprint race in Interlagos


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ringo]

The long covid you described could relate to a few instances where there were errors. And not that he has made much errors this year. But mainly bumping the jack man and hitting the wall. Not many errors by both drivers this year. The teams seem to make more operational and strategic errors. Redbull is of course hungrier and have always been good with disruptive strategy and very fast pit stops.

[langedweil]

Lads .. you know there is a specific Mercedes thread, right ?

[adrianjordan]

Also please stop making up medical conditions... "lung Covid" is not a thing. Long Covid IS.

[NL_Fer]

Also please stop making up medical conditions... "lung Covid" is not a thing. Long Covid IS.

It is a translation mistake. If one doesn’t understand long Covid is already English, than one tries to translate to English and think it should be lung Covid.

long = lung in Dutch

[Gillian]

Exactly. And it's all fun and games that Max himself claimed that if there was a Mercedes in their engine room, they'd be champs - Williams had that and look what happened. Aston/Racing Point. Mclaren has the Merc and is now pretty strong, but still just falling short.

In other words, it's really not just the engine. Mercedes thus has done something great with the chassis too, and from 2014-2020 things were 'fine' - but for 2021, suddenly, there has been a rule change (as suggested by some delibarately to improve championship battle) which hampers low-rake cars like the Mercedes more than any other (read: Mercedes is hurt, RBR is fine). SO, RBR is not doing anything more spectacular than Ferrari has been doing.

And as i've mentioned elsewhere too, there's still this minor thing that plagues my mind. However you put it, Hamilton is far, far more fatigued this year than he has EVER, EVER been.
He almost tumbled off the podium a few races ago and Ocon noticed and obviously got a bit worried even. Hamilton has been grasping for air, panting on multiple race finishes.
Compare to how physically he was 'normally' in the past, then one would say something has changed. It's not that unlikely that he is suffering from post-covid 'lungcovid' conditions, or perhaps something else. It might actually be part of the reason for difficult contract negotiations. Whatever the case, it's sufficiently defendable that Lewis is suffering this season from worse physical athletic state than he has compared to the previous seasons.

That would put him a bit in a 'handicapped' situation, and paired to the above, again, this would also 'exegerate' RedBull's achievements.

Am i glad RBR is challenging Mercedes? Again, yes, definately.

Still, there are 7 GP's to go, and that means at least 175 winning points to be made. Both can make 3 wins and the deciding factor then goes down not just to whom wins the last race,
but also about the tally of fastest lap points.

BTW, is there another sprint race left or are we done?

I agree with you that Mercedes isn't just about the engine but surely you can see how much Red Bull has been hampered by the Renault engine in most of the hybrid era? I am sure Red Bull would have won atleast one WCC/WDC if they had a Mercedes PU since 2014. You really can't compare 2021 to those earlier years in that regard.

Brazil is a sprint race unfortunately.

[AeroDynamic]

2017 and 2018 were not easy championships. People at Mercedes had to work hard at developing the car with Hamilton to get on top of Ferrari those seasons. It looked straight forward in the end because they achieved it after the first half of the season, and it was exaggerated even more by Ferrari and Sebastian making costly errors, like Germany and Singapore. They were challenged, they just had both hands to fight back with in those years.

If Mercedes had one hand tied behind their backs in those seasons with development (having to switch off development and focus on an entirely new car philosophy under new regs from scratch) then those seasons could have very easily resembled this year a lot more.

Red Bull have streamed development all season so far. Mercedes introduced one significant upgrade in Silverstone that I can recall. If this season was happening in a different year it’s very possible it could’ve been disregarded like people are doing with the 2017 and 2018 seasons, even if RB are making little to no mistakes compared to Ferrari.

People mention rake this year when talking about the performance drop off for low rake cars. But isn’t it the floor slots as much? Arguably those aerodynamic features were very important ones to get the most out of a low rake.

It’s not just the new regs that Mercedes have struggled with, it’s the fact that they lost their head start advantage that they amassed over the last 2 seasons. The W11 was so strong they switched off early. They had a W12 in the works but had to scrap their work because the regs changed at least twice during 2020 due to the covid pandemic. Imagine working on a set of regulations twice only to have to start over again. Whatever head start they had, they lost, and they have probably had a similar amount of development time as RB to develop the W12 under this years finalised regs.

[adrianjordan]

Also please stop making up medical conditions... "lung Covid" is not a thing. Long Covid IS.

It is a translation mistake. If one doesn’t understand long Covid is already English, than one tries to translate to English and think it should be lung Covid.

long = lung in Dutch

Given how excellent the rest of Manoah's English is and that they have also used the term long Covid in the past, I'm afraid I don't buy that explanation.

Anyway back on topic.

Lewis taking a new ICE should give Max an open goal if they can dial that front end in.

Looking forward to watching the one off livery on track!!

[Juzh]

Verstappen's fp1 lap 1.24.603 (P2)

https://streamable.com/l1zrd0