2021 United States Grand Prix - Austin, Oct 22 - 24

[dans79]

its not an invention, but the point was Mercedes are extracting more from doing it better

can you explain why you think it can't be that? you think its the engine? What Brundle said undermines that idea.

I dunno, the Ferrari looks pretty good at it in Turkey:

https://twitter.com/mickeyymedia/status ... 21827?s=21

So just to confirm, Gary Anderson doesn’t know what he’s talking about either?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-and ... ion-trick/

what your missing is that most of us that have been following F1 for a while, know this has been going on for almost ever.


Also Gary is talking out of his butt here.

It’s potentially a massive advantage and I doubt Red Bull can copy it because it runs the high rake on its car. So for it to get its car close enough to the ground to make its diffuser stall would require a complete change in its aerodynamic philosophy, which isn’t going to happen.

The Mercedes suspension system seemed to arrive in line with its developments for Silverstone. That upgrade made the front corners of the underfloor work harder and that means there’s less airflow actually going to the diffuser so suddenly you can actually use that less airflow to get to the critical point of making the diffuser stall just that bit earlier.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -06-28.pdf
see page 128

inboard rear suspension components had a freeze date of mid 2020, and they cost two tokens to change.

thats means 2 things.

1) If red bull already spent their tokens, then they can't make a change even if they could technically figure out how to stall the diffuser..
2) merc has either been running this suspension since mid 2020, or has quietly changed it during this season and no one caught it.

[dans79]

and just be clear Gary rarely knows what he is talking about. listen to him babble on about the 2012 Mclaren exhaust. he had no idea what the teams where actually doing.....

[Hoffman900]

I respect Gary, but his time passed. Also, he hasn’t worked on car design in almost 20 years. I think Scarbs has a better pulse on contemporary F1 car design and rules. That said, this idea definitely goes back to his era.

High rake cars like RedBull, Mclaren, and Renault absolute depend on the rear squatting at speed to help keep them from being aero bricks. The fact that Mercedes had to dial more of it in goes back to the change in floor rules and them needing to raise the rear some

[zibby43]

It’s annoying even for a mostly impartial fan of the sport (go Mclaren!).

Like get over it.

He’s becoming a caricature of himself lol.

Button seems to constantly contradict him
too which is quite funny to hear.

I agree, it was great seeing JB challenge PDR.

[zibby43]

Merc had a couple tenths over RB in terms of race pace.

The quali sims in FP2 weren’t really representative.

[JordanMugen]

Anyone who thinks this is normal behaviour of suspension should watch the footage again or should maybe ask some other members here why it’s such a big deal instead of just know for sure its a bit of nonsense

Again, NASCAR has done it since the 1990s, it’s commonplace in MotoGP, it’s not impossible to do.

I know, but the way the Mercedes squating down is odd at least

Is it really any more than a simple two-piece spring (i.e., one spring with one rate, and then when that fully compresses another spring with a softer rate) on the heave damper?

Wouldn't the soft spring normally compress first until it's fully compressed (with dual spring rates normally used to improve kerb riding), how do Mercedes get the stiff spring to compress first?

I think, somehow, dual springs can be used to make the car behave differently in squat than in dive.


(E.g., the arrangement on the right, but obviously with tiny F1 Belleville washer springs, not coil springs.)

[JordanMugen]

Hmm, apparently Ferrari and Red Bull are considering a protest if the Mercedes' suspension constitutes some kind of movable aerodynamic device ala the mass damper which was banned on those grounds.

When I saw the Max onboard I thought it was Lewis playing games.

Seeing the Lewis onboard, however, he comes at the two at such a pace that jumping in front was the normal move to make. I don't think he was playing in games at all he was just on a different testing strategy and going a lot faster.

After he did that though it's Max who responds and decides to come back obviously affected in some way by it. I'd like to say Hamilton is intentionally getting into his head but TBH this one is all on Max and it shows a bit of fragility which is understandable.

Not at all. It was rude of Hamilton to not let Verstappen (back) past. Being courteous and polite is very important, overtaking drivers who are queuing - as Hamilton did - is not the done thing. Why doesn't Hamilton place more priority on deferring to Verstappen!? "My bad I see you want to continue in front, understood, I'll drop back behind, after you."

[AeroDynamic]

Hmm, apparently Ferrari and Red Bull are considering a protest if the Mercedes' suspension constitutes some kind of movable aerodynamic device ala the mass damper which was banned on those grounds.

When I saw the Max onboard I thought it was Lewis playing games.

Seeing the Lewis onboard, however, he comes at the two at such a pace that jumping in front was the normal move to make. I don't think he was playing in games at all he was just on a different testing strategy and going a lot faster.

After he did that though it's Max who responds and decides to come back obviously affected in some way by it. I'd like to say Hamilton is intentionally getting into his head but TBH this one is all on Max and it shows a bit of fragility which is understandable.

Not at all. It was rude of Hamilton to not let Verstappen (back) past. Being courteous and polite is very important, overtaking drivers who are queuing - as Hamilton did - is not the done thing. Why doesn't Hamilton place more priority on deferring to Verstappen!? "My bad I see you want to continue in front, understood, I'll drop back behind, after you."

Apparently max overtook Lewis earlier in the lap. I haven’t seen a full onboard of the whole lap but this video appears to show max overtaking Lewis first

[Tommy Cookers]

I respect Gary, but his time passed. Also, he hasn’t worked on car design in almost 20 years....

I once saw a TV programme of GA telling his story (eg at his local factory, getting involved with machinery by chance)
he didn't even do ONC (Ordinary National Certificate - the lowest thing - done at evening or day release classes)
iirc Gordon Murray is also notionally unqualified


regarding the springs (2 different rate spring elements in series) ....
both elements compress together at a combined rate (lb/") lower than either would on its own
only when one of them (not necessarily the 'softest') becomes fully compressed will the combined rate increase

the generic term for disc springs (eg 'Belleville washers') is .... disc springs

[bonjon1979]

Hmm, apparently Ferrari and Red Bull are considering a protest if the Mercedes' suspension constitutes some kind of movable aerodynamic device ala the mass damper which was banned on those grounds.

When I saw the Max onboard I thought it was Lewis playing games.

Seeing the Lewis onboard, however, he comes at the two at such a pace that jumping in front was the normal move to make. I don't think he was playing in games at all he was just on a different testing strategy and going a lot faster.

After he did that though it's Max who responds and decides to come back obviously affected in some way by it. I'd like to say Hamilton is intentionally getting into his head but TBH this one is all on Max and it shows a bit of fragility which is understandable.

Not at all. It was rude of Hamilton to not let Verstappen (back) past. Being courteous and polite is very important, overtaking drivers who are queuing - as Hamilton did - is not the done thing. Why doesn't Hamilton place more priority on deferring to Verstappen!? "My bad I see you want to continue in front, understood, I'll drop back behind, after you."

Apparently max overtook Lewis earlier in the lap. I haven’t seen a full onboard of the whole lap but this video appears to show max overtaking Lewis first

Exactly, max was the one who was rude in the first place and over took Hamilton on his preparation lap. Hamilton simply returned the favour and max threw his toys out the pram. Plus ca change

[bonjon1979]

Hmm, apparently Ferrari and Red Bull are considering a protest if the Mercedes' suspension constitutes some kind of movable aerodynamic device ala the mass damper which was banned on those grounds.

When I saw the Max onboard I thought it was Lewis playing games.

Seeing the Lewis onboard, however, he comes at the two at such a pace that jumping in front was the normal move to make. I don't think he was playing in games at all he was just on a different testing strategy and going a lot faster.

After he did that though it's Max who responds and decides to come back obviously affected in some way by it. I'd like to say Hamilton is intentionally getting into his head but TBH this one is all on Max and it shows a bit of fragility which is understandable.

Not at all. It was rude of Hamilton to not let Verstappen (back) past. Being courteous and polite is very important, overtaking drivers who are queuing - as Hamilton did - is not the done thing. Why doesn't Hamilton place more priority on deferring to Verstappen!? "My bad I see you want to continue in front, understood, I'll drop back behind, after you."

Think they might struggle as it’s not technically any part of the bodywork moving. The car is sinking down on its suspension. It’s the opposite of what the high rake cars do in the slow corners where we really see them rise up when the aero load decreases.

[proteus]

Hmm, apparently Ferrari and Red Bull are considering a protest if the Mercedes' suspension constitutes some kind of movable aerodynamic device ala the mass damper which was banned on those grounds.




Not at all. It was rude of Hamilton to not let Verstappen (back) past. Being courteous and polite is very important, overtaking drivers who are queuing - as Hamilton did - is not the done thing. Why doesn't Hamilton place more priority on deferring to Verstappen!? "My bad I see you want to continue in front, understood, I'll drop back behind, after you."

Apparently max overtook Lewis earlier in the lap. I haven’t seen a full onboard of the whole lap but this video appears to show max overtaking Lewis first

Exactly, max was the one who was rude in the first place and over took Hamilton on his preparation lap. Hamilton simply returned the favour and max threw his toys out the pram. Plus ca change

Max came past Lewis, since he drove slow and wide into a corner. Max then slowed down due to the car infront being slow. Lewis locked his brakes and must have got his blood pressure up as well as then he drove past Max, drove into him wide into corner jet again and then continued with pushing him off the track, then accelerating side by side and again pushing for the corner.

[toraabe]

Just stupid Max. Why can't he just keep his mouth shut.

[AriaanGert]

Apparently max overtook Lewis earlier in the lap. I haven’t seen a full onboard of the whole lap but this video appears to show max overtaking Lewis first

Exactly, max was the one who was rude in the first place and over took Hamilton on his preparation lap. Hamilton simply returned the favour and max threw his toys out the pram. Plus ca change

Max came past Lewis, since he drove slow and wide into a corner. Max then slowed down due to the car infront being slow. Lewis locked his brakes and must have got his blood pressure up as well as then he drove past Max, drove into him wide into corner jet again and then continued with pushing him off the track, then accelerating side by side and again pushing for the corner.

This is good comment. I watched the onboard laps and although I think Max was not innocent, it is most surprising to see how Lewis doesn't get to the inside apex to start his flying lap. He is indeed deliberately pushing Max off the track. Doesn't look like he is minding his own business. More like trying to ruin Max'

Also Lewis was warned that Gasly and Max were coming through so, although after Gasly was passed he was to told to be in sink. Overtake of Max was maybe not planned, but wasn't a surprise.

[214270]

Exactly, max was the one who was rude in the first place and over took Hamilton on his preparation lap. Hamilton simply returned the favour and max threw his toys out the pram. Plus ca change

Max came past Lewis, since he drove slow and wide into a corner. Max then slowed down due to the car infront being slow. Lewis locked his brakes and must have got his blood pressure up as well as then he drove past Max, drove into him wide into corner jet again and then continued with pushing him off the track, then accelerating side by side and again pushing for the corner.

This is good comment. I watched the onboard laps and although I think Max was not innocent, it is most surprising to see how Lewis doesn't get to the inside apex to start his flying lap. He is indeed deliberately pushing Max off the track. Doesn't look like he is minding his own business. More like trying to ruin Max'

Also Lewis was warned that Gasly and Max were coming through so, although after Gasly was passed he was to told to be in sink. Overtake of Max was maybe not planned, but wasn't a surprise.

VER clearly stamped on the throttle, kept his foot in it trying to maintain momentum and drove off-track onto the runoff by his lonesome. We’ve seen this like a dozen times this season. He could’ve yielded early, he chose not too...no big deal. There’s no need to make this into something it isn’t.