2021 United States Grand Prix - Austin, Oct 22 - 24

[WaikeCU]

I worry with how this GP thread has suddenly become a W12 tech thread

[Hoffman900]

Everything is a system. Potentially Mercedes proves that improves initial braking performance or stability at speed. The wholly incidental or contrived argument is easy to muck up enough to make it almost unenforceable.

People are pointing to a video of the RedBull at Austria being "linear". Looking linear and being linear are two different things, and without the data, it's just a guess. Furthermore, horses for courses, it's tuneable and without data at the same track, it's pointless.

All very well, but we can't have Mercedes having an unfair advantage -- Mercedes are the very first to protest unfair Red Bull advantages like the flexible rear wing endplates or automated pitstops after all!

They all do it, and then they all gaslight us through the media. Wasn't it Adrian Newey who said Ferrari would try to copy stuff he did, and when they couldn't make it work because they didn't understand it, they would lobby (and successfully) to ban / make it illegal?

It's always been this way and they all do it.

[JordanMugen]

I worry with how this GP thread has suddenly become a W12 tech thread

Well it's the hot topic in the pit paddock at the United States Grand Prix, if of little relevance to the Grand Prix itself.

They all do it, and then they all gaslight us through the media.
It's always been this way and they all do it.

What's your point? Red Bull will seek a clarification about this type of mechanism if they feel it doesn't necessarily comply with the regulations... Then it might be banned which will be job done.

By all means you are allowed a suspension system(s) on the car, the FIA has however been very clear the suspension system should not be primarily for an aerodynamic purpose.

[AeroDynamic]

I dunno, the Ferrari looks pretty good at it in Turkey:

https://twitter.com/mickeyymedia/status ... 21827?s=21

So just to confirm, Gary Anderson doesn’t know what he’s talking about either?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-and ... ion-trick/

what your missing is that most of us that have been following F1 for a while, know this has been going on for almost ever.


Also Gary is talking out of his butt here.

It’s potentially a massive advantage and I doubt Red Bull can copy it because it runs the high rake on its car. So for it to get its car close enough to the ground to make its diffuser stall would require a complete change in its aerodynamic philosophy, which isn’t going to happen.

The Mercedes suspension system seemed to arrive in line with its developments for Silverstone. That upgrade made the front corners of the underfloor work harder and that means there’s less airflow actually going to the diffuser so suddenly you can actually use that less airflow to get to the critical point of making the diffuser stall just that bit earlier.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -06-28.pdf
see page 128

inboard rear suspension components had a freeze date of mid 2020, and they cost two tokens to change.

thats means 2 things.

1) If red bull already spent their tokens, then they can't make a change even if they could technically figure out how to stall the diffuser..
2) merc has either been running this suspension since mid 2020, or has quietly changed it during this season and no one caught it.

I’m not missing anything. Where did I say anything was new or exclusive? Let’s not do strawman arguments please.

All I said, is that Mercedes are doing something in this area. They’re exploiting it better for their car. Some of you shoot these people down, another of you suggest scarbs is more credible, but he is not dismissing this as you guys are:

Altho this is now old tech, as I pointed out Merc did exhibit more extreme collapsing in Turkey. Running nearly flat in fast sections, while riding back up to their higher rake settings in the slow/mid speed sections

MCS are apparently doing it better or more extremely, which is what I remained open to believing despite people firing this down and talking down from some sort of high horse.

We don’t know where all this gain has come from on the straights, but it seems kinda arrogant to dismiss this completely just because the idea is old, doesn’t mean it’s being executed in the same way. Mercedes just might have made their car work from one extreme (very flat ride height) to another (slightly higher rake from previous?) even if not higher rake then previous, if Mercedes are decreasing the ride height even more than they did before, without losing the original ride height, that is an advantage? And relative to the rest of the field running high rakes, then it sounds like MCS are exaggerating the advantage of a low rake where it helps.

[Hoffman900]

I worry with how this GP thread has suddenly become a W12 tech thread

Well it's the hot topic in the pit paddock at the United States Grand Prix, if of little relevance to the Grand Prix itself.

It is F1Technical after all, not F1Rumors.

What's your point? Red Bull will seek a clarification about this type of mechanism if they feel it doesn't necessarily comply with the regulations... Then it might be banned which will be job done.

Only if they don't shoot their own feet in the process.

[AeroDynamic]

Either way, must salute the men and women in that MCS team. To turn what had become a weakness under this years regs (low rake) into a strength, is impressive.

[Hoffman900]

Either way, must salute the men and women in that MCS team. To turn what had become a weakness under this years regs (low rake) into a strength, is impressive.

Absolutely. I wonder if they figured it out too late though, and curious to see if RB can respond.

[grubschumi13]

I'm picking Merc 0.5 ahead of RB in Q3 and 0.9 ahead of Perez. I think they were sandbagging in P2 after the 1s ahead in P1 brought too much of the spotlight on them.

That's my prediction too. Merc have had the superior car all season, I don't understand why they keep bottling it this season.

[AeroDynamic]

I'm picking Merc 0.5 ahead of RB in Q3 and 0.9 ahead of Perez. I think they were sandbagging in P2 after the 1s ahead in P1 brought too much of the spotlight on them.

That's my prediction too. Merc have had the superior car all season, I don't understand why they keep bottling it this season.

Interesting belief

[dans79]

I'm picking Merc 0.5 ahead of RB in Q3 and 0.9 ahead of Perez. I think they were sandbagging in P2 after the 1s ahead in P1 brought too much of the spotlight on them.

That's my prediction too. Merc have had the superior car all season, I don't understand why they keep bottling it this season.

Interesting belief

No more interesting than some of the others expressed here.

[dans79]

I'm picking Merc 0.5 ahead of RB in Q3 and 0.9 ahead of Perez. I think they were sandbagging in P2 after the 1s ahead in P1 brought too much of the spotlight on them.

I don't think it was sandbaging, just really high track temps.

[search]

I'm picking Merc 0.5 ahead of RB in Q3 and 0.9 ahead of Perez. I think they were sandbagging in P2 after the 1s ahead in P1 brought too much of the spotlight on them.

I don't think it was sandbaging, just really high track temps.

as usual, the reason Mercedes (almost) always wins FP1 by a good margin is the same why Verstappen (almost) always wins FP3: a different approach. The truth is somewhere in the middle, and usually results in a close Qualifying. Can't see why it shouldn't be the same today.

[jurinius]

"Win" FP !? probably a new concept those days. Sandbagging can be from both side, because their cars are doing well overall.

RB has a solid package since the beginning of the season and has drastically gained in reliability, maybe same level as Mercedes past seasons. Mercedes replied to a faster RedBull with the same level of aerodynamic flexibility Newey used to bring on the table. It is more an engineering war and I really hope the FIA stays away of this til the end of this season. It is up to the respective drivers with their ability to drive continuously changing cars. We will see who is the best.

[InsaneX_Badger]

Looks like red bull are 2-3 tenths ahead. Let's hope Merc can be close enough to trouble in qualifying.

[AeroDynamic]

Looks like red bull are 2-3 tenths ahead. Let's hope Merc can be close enough to trouble in qualifying.

Qualifying will tell all, but all is Boding well for RB. The have got the set up in a good place, no understeer bemoaned so far. We just might see the red bull in optimum place this weekend. Which is exactly what I want to see, both cars at their optimal, and see how much ground MCS really made on the RB since Silverstone.