Mercedes W12

[SiLo]

Will they be able to carry the rear squat over to the new regs and, more importantly, will it offer any benefit with the new underfloor aero rules?

If those suspension components are not banned, then I don't see why they can't do that. And I imagine it would once again help the car, it effectively increases the diffuser size at lower speeds, it also increase car rake, helping the front wing. Having a car that is stable at high speed but on the nose at low speed is incredibly beneficial.

[basti313]

Will they be able to carry the rear squat over to the new regs and, more importantly, will it offer any benefit with the new underfloor aero rules?

As far as I see it at the moment with the usage of the token, this was not planned at all during this season because it did not make much sense to keep it back otherwise.
They had the usual plan from testing to run away with the championship. But with the power of the RedBull they were forced to introduce the changes mid season with another floor. Maybe they would have used the token to test the new suspension at the end of the season, but not that obvious.

[Big Tea]

Geez. that site takes half hour t o turn off all the cookies and ads choices.

You can reject all at once. I’ve found that out only after a while as well.

Just open in incognito.

Have to look into that. thanks

[pierrre]

Same concept different implementation. Collapsing rear ride height (not pure downforce squash) isn't a new concept. Neither is it a new implementation for Mercedes this season, let alone the last weekend.

Care to share any precedents? The video you link before showed a conceptually different response of the RB compared to the Mercedes yet you argue that it's the same

I'm not arguing they have the exact same system, nor that Merc haven't developed it or run a more aggressive setup for it in Turkey. I'm saying that it's not new tech and all teams are using it. summed up as much by Scarbs here.

Old rear facing footage is hard to come by unfortunately. But it's definitely not a massive innovation Merc have turned up with at Turkey

i dont think it is actually there to boost top speed as all the others must be getting relative results with their aero suspension set up down the straight...i suspect the stepped load heave is there to do quite the opposite, to hold high downforce steeper rake for longer to get more out of cornering performances around a track and then at certain speed or engineered speeds the high ground clearance set up will give in and drop more aggressively to a lower ride set up heave load to get a better top speed. maybe this is also why mercedes-amg is not too aggressive on high rake because theyve got such a system as compensation if there are disadvantages to those with a more aggressive raked floor

with all the other teams more or less getting the same advantage in aero squat to improve top speed, with this system, downforce will clearly be their advantage to the linear heave spring set up..wonder if they've even got a three step variant just in case if there is a tricky situation with high speed corners

[ringo]

This suspension may not be related to stalling diffuser. If it did so and the diffuser lost load, then the car would rise again with the reduced load.
The diffuser is not stalled i think, it could be likely the wake of the car is modified with the car in the lowered position.
It's some kind of heave spring arrangement where the car is sprung softly then the suspension moves down until it reaches a point where those normal springs lose mechanical advantage against the wheel loads, then a softer spring takes over the load as the car lowers even more. This allows the car to assume a lower position for more of the straights.
Imagine a lever arm with a downward force as it rotates till it's directly over the pivot and loses its moment and at that point a second smaller moment takes over.

[Stu]

This suspension may not be related to stalling diffuser. If it did so and the diffuser lost load, then the car would rise again with the reduced load.
The diffuser is not stalled i think, it could be likely the wake of the car is modified with the car in the lowered position.
It's some kind of heave spring arrangement where the car is sprung softly then the suspension moves down until it reaches a point where those normal springs lose mechanical advantage against the wheel loads, then a softer spring takes over the load as the car lowers even more. This allows the car to assume a lower position for more of the straights.
Imagine a lever arm with a downward force as it rotates till it's directly over the pivot and loses its moment and at that point a second smaller moment takes over.

There is definitely something being used, however it is more likely within the third (heave) damper rather than springs. The whole rear looks as though it is collapsing.

[Big Tea]

This suspension may not be related to stalling diffuser. If it did so and the diffuser lost load, then the car would rise again with the reduced load.
The diffuser is not stalled i think, it could be likely the wake of the car is modified with the car in the lowered position.
It's some kind of heave spring arrangement where the car is sprung softly then the suspension moves down until it reaches a point where those normal springs lose mechanical advantage against the wheel loads, then a softer spring takes over the load as the car lowers even more. This allows the car to assume a lower position for more of the straights.
Imagine a lever arm with a downward force as it rotates till it's directly over the pivot and loses its moment and at that point a second smaller moment takes over.

There is definitely something being used, however it is more likely within the third (heave) damper rather than springs. The whole rear looks as though it is collapsing.

I believe it is related to the fixing points of the moving leavers. when covering the first part of motion they are at an angle they gives little leverage, but once at a point that gives a larger mechanical advantage it finds the spring 'easier to compress' so moves further for the small increase in force. Probably assisted with a cam shaped mount.

(or maybe it is nothing at all like that )

[marcel171281]

This suspension may not be related to stalling diffuser.

It definitely won't stall. It will skim downforce and therefore reduce drag, but with lowering the angle of attack stalling is out of the question.

Try to stall an airplan by pointing the nose down is the same as stalling a F1 diffuser by pointing the nose up. Impossible.

Futhermore, if it was capable of stalling the diffuser by changing the angle of attack by (maybe?) 1 degree, I wouldn't try driving that thing over bumps in high speed corners, causing the exact same, sudden, effect.

[pierrre]

This suspension may not be related to stalling diffuser. If it did so and the diffuser lost load, then the car would rise again with the reduced load.
The diffuser is not stalled i think, it could be likely the wake of the car is modified with the car in the lowered position.
It's some kind of heave spring arrangement where the car is sprung softly then the suspension moves down until it reaches a point where those normal springs lose mechanical advantage against the wheel loads, then a softer spring takes over the load as the car lowers even more. This allows the car to assume a lower position for more of the straights.
Imagine a lever arm with a downward force as it rotates till it's directly over the pivot and loses its moment and at that point a second smaller moment takes over.

interesting that stall is brought up, they is a belief that they are stalling the front of the floor with the front suspension ride height under heavy downforce, a critical area to for influencing ground effect in todays f1 aerodynamic development...thats when sparks are seen coming from the floor splitter...if that portion is stalled, how would it effect the diffuser...will it void stalling the diffuser

[dans79]

It definitely won't stall. It will skim downforce and therefore reduce drag, but with lowering the angle of attack stalling is out of the question.

Try to stall an airplan by pointing the nose down is the same as stalling a F1 diffuser by pointing the nose up. Impossible.

Futhermore, if it was capable of stalling the diffuser by changing the angle of attack by (maybe?) 1 degree, I wouldn't try driving that thing over bumps in high speed corners, causing the exact same, sudden, effect.

Stalling happens, but it's not because the angle of attack changes.

have a look at this, it indirectly explains what's going on.
https://www.racetechmag.com/2017/08/wil ... diffusers/

[KAIZEN]

Mercedes was able to perform a low ride height at the 2020 Portuguese Grand Prix, as shown in this image.

From AMuS

[Morteza]

Via Motorsport.com

[dans79]

Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but that looks like a really low DF wing for Mexico!

[Just_a_fan]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tail-1.jpg

Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but that looks like a really low DF wing for Mexico!

I get the feeling that Mercedes's issue is getting enough rear downforce rather than front downforce.

[dans79]

It looks to me like they have reduced the front wing pylon length a good bit (would be expected) as they have increased rake!

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