2021 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Nov 05 - 07

[PlatinumZealot]

Whelp! Couldnt do much about that result! If Max doesn't win this it would be a huuuuuge shocker.

Mercedes has no answer.

[Sieper]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid, I feel RB have developed more than Merc did for the past year. It would be interesting to see how well developed the RB is next season. Could this be an opportunity they’ve focused on more than they’ve expected or will RB have a streak of a few seasons of dominance?

Sounds like an excuse. It has been a tight season. Before today, the last race RBR dominated was Austria. Merc then had Silvertone, Monza, Turkey and Russia. Dutch most of the race they were separated by 2 seconds and Cota was tight again and traditionally a Mercedes track and it was a tight race under 2 seconds at the end.

When Max should win he does. He has also been better at damage limitation as witnessed in Russia, he has also won races and taken 2nd places he had no right to.

Well, both statements are true, the RB is the better car. But also, MCS still could’ve won this championship despite that because they were given an opportunity with that racing incident in Silverstone when it went their way, and max was unlucky with no fault of his own in Hungary. They could’ve denied what was essentially red bulls title this year.

But it’s not just been down to Lewis underperforming on a couple of occasions, MCS has underperformed a couple of times too, both together have made some significant errors. But there’s also no denying that the conditions have really come to max when he was vulnerable. For example you said he did a “better job” at damage limitation, citing Russia? Well, how did he do that? By making it rain? Sometimes situations and conditions happen to give you a get out of jail free card. Lewis got one in Imola. And max got two in Russia and Turkey. From Hamilton’s perspective, he really lucked out with the engine issues this year, he still could’ve walked Turkey but the conditions came to Max’s favour and no DRS was available, and in those conditions, cars arent able to hit their peak ability of pace.

Max would have come back to P2 under his own steam if there wouldn’t have been rain in Q2. That totally deleted his tire advantage, otherwise the subtop of that race would have pitted away in front of him. Now he got stuck. And yes, the rain then in the race was a help, but he also took the most advantage of that. Anybody could. Verstappen did.

[Gillian]

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He's been driving like that since 2019 imo. He matured a bit and naturally it helps to have a car to compete. In the years before that there was too much pressure to get a win here and there. It was always like "we are close to Mercedes this weekend, we MUST win now".

[Big Tea]

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

The pre- edited version was better

[grubschumi13]

Sounds like an excuse. It has been a tight season. Before today, the last race RBR dominated was Austria. Merc then had Silvertone, Monza, Turkey and Russia. Dutch most of the race they were separated by 2 seconds and Cota was tight again and traditionally a Mercedes track and it was a tight race under 2 seconds at the end.

When Max should win he does. He has also been better at damage limitation as witnessed in Russia, he has also won races and taken 2nd places he had no right to.

Well, both statements are true, the RB is the better car. But also, MCS still could’ve won this championship despite that because they were given an opportunity with that racing incident in Silverstone when it went their way, and max was unlucky with no fault of his own in Hungary. They could’ve denied what was essentially red bulls title this year.

But it’s not just been down to Lewis underperforming on a couple of occasions, MCS has underperformed a couple of times too, both together have made some significant errors. But there’s also no denying that the conditions have really come to max when he was vulnerable. For example you said he did a “better job” at damage limitation, citing Russia? Well, how did he do that? By making it rain? Sometimes situations and conditions happen to give you a get out of jail free card. Lewis got one in Imola. And max got two in Russia and Turkey. From Hamilton’s perspective, he really lucked out with the engine issues this year, he still could’ve walked Turkey but the conditions came to Max’s favour and no DRS was available, and in those conditions, cars arent able to hit their peak ability of pace.

Max would have come back to P2 under his own steam if there wouldn’t have been rain in Q2. That totally deleted his tire advantage, otherwise the subtop of that race would have pitted away in front of him. Now he got stuck. And yes, the rain then in the race was a help, but he also took the most advantage of that. Anybody could. Verstappen did.

Could not have put it better. "And yes, the rain then in the race was a help, but he also took the most advantage of that. Anybody could. Verstappen did."

We are getting too many excuses, from altitude / hot / cold temps /rain/ thin air / Bottas / engines / tires / bad luck. It's a bit much don't you think.

And to take Hamilton's own logic Bottas is 3rd in the championship is testament to how competitive they are too.

[Sieper]

And they are. So it will remain to be tense.

[ringo]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid

Seems premature. This is a high-altitude track with lots of slow corners. It remains to be seen if Red Bull are also easily faster at Silverstone-style tracks with primarily fast corners. It also seems to depend on track temperature.

On average, the Red Bull has certainly been slightly ahead over the season, but I'm not sure at a Catalunya or Silverstone type track that the Red Bull is easily faster than the Mercedes.

Didnt you see COTA?

[Rodak]

I watched the start from like 5-6 different videos. Max was perfect in breaking into the first corner. Max, Bottas and Lewis were all aligned, side by side into the breaking zone and voila Max was a car lengths ahead !

I probably shouldn't post this, but this IS a technical forum. It's BRAKING when you want to slow the car down. When you 'break' you just don't finish........ Sorry, irritation factor took over.

[the poster below]

Watching the highlights, and the top 10 order on lap 28/71 is the same as the finishing order of the top 10. That's before any of the top 10 (at that point) had pitted. I'm not saying they should be shuffled like a deck of cards, but you'd have thought something might change...

[Zynerji]

Watching the highlights, and the top 10 order on lap 28/71 is the same as the finishing order of the top 10. That's before any of the top 10 (at that point) had pitted. I'm not saying they should be shuffled like a deck of cards, but you'd have thought something might change...

They qualify in speed order, so the static positions make perfect sense. We only see a shuffle when something happens, like a free pitstop under a SC, or damage, etc.

[the poster below]

Watching the highlights, and the top 10 order on lap 28/71 is the same as the finishing order of the top 10. That's before any of the top 10 (at that point) had pitted. I'm not saying they should be shuffled like a deck of cards, but you'd have thought something might change...

They qualify in speed order, so the static positions make perfect sense. We only see a shuffle when something happens, like a free pitstop under a SC, or damage, etc.

I just meant that usually there is a position swap, any position swap, that results from the pit stop phase, typically further down the order.

[Ryar]

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

[selvam_e2002]

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

I would say instead of blaming other drivers either as your team mate or rivals, it is up to Hamilton to secure the Pole and drive away in race. As a fan we know Botta is not helping Mercedes nor Hamilton. Now it is time to Hamilton to up his game with whatever he has with the car.

On Max performance, It is too early to compare with prost and sena. This is what happen when Vettel won 4 WDC with RB and now no where. So, my point of view is, if Max move out from RB, then we can judge his performance and compare with legends.

[Ryar]

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

I would say instead of blaming other drivers either as your team mate or rivals, it is up to Hamilton to secure the Pole and drive away in race. As a fan we know Botta is not helping Mercedes nor Hamilton. Now it is time to Hamilton to up his game with whatever he has with the car.

On Max performance, It is too early to compare with prost and sena. This is what happen when Vettel won 4 WDC with RB and now no where. So, my point of view is, if Max move out from RB, then we can judge his performance and compare with legends.

If that is the yard stick to measure greatness, then Senna isn't a legend as he only won championships in McLaren.

[AeroDynamic]

IMO he did exactly what he should have done in Monza. It's overrated to say, "picking the battle". When the championship contender is available for an attack, in a close championship fight, a driver has to take chances, which Max did. There was space and like most top dogs, he went for it. He gained psychological edge in that incident, if not points on track.

I would say instead of blaming other drivers either as your team mate or rivals, it is up to Hamilton to secure the Pole and drive away in race. As a fan we know Botta is not helping Mercedes nor Hamilton. Now it is time to Hamilton to up his game with whatever he has with the car.

On Max performance, It is too early to compare with prost and sena. This is what happen when Vettel won 4 WDC with RB and now no where. So, my point of view is, if Max move out from RB, then we can judge his performance and compare with legends.

If that is the yard stick to measure greatness, then Senna isn't a legend as he only won championships in McLaren.

In a McLaren against Prost that is. The man of the grid at the time, in his prime before tailing off. He certainly started to beat him even more decisively in 90 despite the reliability woes that warped the final standings?

Can’t say Alonso has actually beaten someone of equal stature in the same car. He did alright against Lewis as a rookie but he tbh, he should’ve not allowed a rookie to lead 70% of the championship that he shares the same car with.

Did Michael beat anyone of equal stature in the same car? I don’t recall it that way.

Max had a strong team mate in Daniel, that was a little Prost - Senna like in dynamic.

It really was a privilege looking back, to witness all time greats in the same car fighting it out. Of course in 07 with Lewis and Alonso, that was a hindsight thing.