2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Big Tea]

If Hamilton loses the championship with less than 18 points, it will be because of his own mistake in Baku.

You could say that, or you could say it is due to Bottas not bringing in the second places when they were easy pickings, which would mean Max had not collected the points then.

[Bill]

merc after all these years has not fixed their high altitude problems they were still doing some lift and coust they are norwhere near Honda level max wss faster in all sectors and cruising to victory so how is that fia stealing champ from merc

[Big Tea]

merc after all these years has not fixed their high altitude problems they were still doing some lift and coust they are norwhere near Honda level max wss faster in all sectors and cruising to victory so how is that fia stealing champ from merc

Understandable in a 'normal' year when they would be in front. Why tailor the car, or part of it, to a single track which may have repercussions on the other tracks? They knew (or thought they knew) it was only a one in 22 problem so not really worth risking a performance loss at the other 21 races.

It has not turned out like that, but only now they find out

[jumpingfish]

If Hamilton loses the championship with less than 18 points, it will be because of his own mistake in Baku.

You could say that, or you could say it is due to Bottas not bringing in the second places when they were easy pickings, which would mean Max had not collected the points then.

How can I blame Bottas if Hamilton himself lost 18 points? As Kimi said to the question about helping Vettel to win the championship, Iceman can only drive one car obviously

[Big Tea]

If Hamilton loses the championship with less than 18 points, it will be because of his own mistake in Baku.

You could say that, or you could say it is due to Bottas not bringing in the second places when they were easy pickings, which would mean Max had not collected the points then.

How can I blame Bottas if Hamilton himself lost 18 points? As Kimi said to the question about helping Vettel to win the championship, Iceman can only drive one car obviously

Every point Bottas did not take from Max is one more Max is in front of Hamilton. Some were un avoidable others were just soft mistakes

[jumpingfish]

You could say that, or you could say it is due to Bottas not bringing in the second places when they were easy pickings, which would mean Max had not collected the points then.

How can I blame Bottas if Hamilton himself lost 18 points? As Kimi said to the question about helping Vettel to win the championship, Iceman can only drive one car obviously

Every point Bottas did not take from Max is one more Max is in front of Hamilton. Some were un avoidable others were just soft mistakes

No mate, I can't say this season will be lost due to Bottas (still big IF before 3races left, many things can happen). In 2020 we've seen that Verstappen is better than Bottas, no need to wait from him more than he can give. Bottas accidentally helped in Hungary, that should cover for team his mistakes.

[Sieper]

If Hamilton loses the championship with less than 18 points, it will be because of his own mistake in Baku.

You could say that, or you could say it is due to Bottas not bringing in the second places when they were easy pickings, which would mean Max had not collected the points then.

But then again Bottas start taking out both RBRs in Hungary happened and the Bottas Russell collision in Imola happened too so due to Bottas Hamilton got some “bonus” points that normally wouldn’t have come his way too.

[west52keep64]

But then again Bottas start taking out both RBRs in Hungary happened and the Bottas Russell collision in Imola happened too so due to Bottas Hamilton got some “bonus” points that normally wouldn’t have come his way too.

Didn't Hamilton basically lose the race in Hungary because of Bottas though? i.e. because it triggered the red flag restart when only Hamilton started on the grid and then had to pit and came out last...

[ringo]

(edit from here)
Which is partly why I am impressed with Max, he is beating Hamilton as well as Merc.

I am not too impressed given the regulations and the chassis and engine freeze regulations.
That really sets the context for this year.
One of the lead cars is handicapped by regulation and its characteristics suffer from it.


I think the real showdown between the teams would be next year where mercedes can go all out. This year Lewis was not even able to go a certain direction with the car because they refused to take resources off the next years car.

And even looking on Max and Redbull efforts, I cannot help but notice that Mercedes are managing their handicap to compete. Most of this year Max knows his package is very good and need only setup right to win. Whereas Mercedes have to pray to the racing gods most weekends in hope the car is in some kind of window to be competitive.
Long story short.. this year was not a real showdown because of regulations. And when the drivers do meet on track.. it cannot be said one has been outdriven by the other at all over the season. The small glimmers of Max vs Lewis on the same piece of track where the cars were very close, both did pretty okay jobs.

Is it the regulations or is it the team not getting it right? Just like 2014 and 2017 where Mercedes got it right and Ferrari and Renault didn't (2014). Can't blame regulations for that, especially, when Mercedes has been party to accepting those regulation changes. Just like Ferrari and Renault were to blame themselves for 2014 after having agreed for regulation changes. Renault has struggled till date, whereas Honda came out of a situation like that after a few years. Add to that, the way driver and the strategy teams have erred this year at Mercedes and the situation looks more gross than it is. They have a No.2, who is not happy to be there at all.

You are missing the point. The 2020 chassis were frozen because of the pandemic.
There is nothing to get right or get wrong. You are stuck with what you had from 2020 and the teams all knew this and were even predicting how much they would lose out in the 2021 year.

[TimW]

They still agreed to the regulation changes.

Is it known yet where Mercedes spent their tokens? Red Bull spent them at the rear suspension, allowing them to adjust in the area affected by the regulation changes. Maybe Merc should have done the same.

[ringo]

But all is not lost. There is a massive pace advantage in the redbull since austria.
The driver is able to drive comfortably at 85%. It will be tough to beat him as usual.
But he has never been in this position before and stuff can happen. Hamilton can still win this if Max is pressured enough.
He also needs to be error free. He has been since his last major error.
19 points can be overcome with 3 wins or a redbull DNF.
Hamilton's engine is weaker than Bottas so Bottas can continue to qualify higher.
Mercedes need to turn down bottas engine because he is more trouble when he is ahead than when he starts behind the top drivers.
His use is so limited they might as well put hulkenberg in the car.

[ringo]

They still agreed to the regulation changes.

Is it known yet where Mercedes spent their tokens? Red Bull spent them at the rear suspension, allowing them to adjust in the area affected by the regulation changes. Maybe Merc should have done the same.

I dont think they could. Redbull may design their chassis for years at an angle to the reference plane so that when the plane is raked the chassis is horizontal.
Mercedes are not able to do that with a frozen chassis.

[JordanMugen]

You are missing the point. The 2020 chassis were frozen because of the pandemic.
There is nothing to get right or get wrong. You are stuck with what you had from 2020

There were tokens to spend on revamps, e.g., Red Bull brought a new rear suspension. It seems Mercedes hasn't spend theirs at all.

Mercedes are not able to do that with a frozen chassis.

You make your choice and develop it. 8 out of 10 Formula One teams prefer the Newey high rake approach. Mercedes still had tokens to develop new things and still have a very fast car.

[Manoah2u]

If Hamilton loses the championship with less than 18 points, it will be because of his own mistake in Baku.

or because verstappen punted him out and parked his car on top of him.
yes, you can counter that with the silverstone contact but you can go on and on and on.

the biggest question was : why did the FIA force a red flag restart @ baku instead of finishing behind the safety car or just ending the race alltogether instead of going for a sprint-like destruction derby time attack 1-lap frenzy?

on top of that there was SPA: a race where big points (even though they were half) were given without an actual race.
we could have seen Verstappen go off, we could have seen Hamilton go off, we could have seen atleast a fight and a real race - had it been atleast raced early instead of waiting for the monsoon's to flow and prevent a race - which was the right thing to do btw. the points allowance was not the right thing to do to be fair.

[Hammerfist]

merc after all these years has not fixed their high altitude problems they were still doing some lift and coust they are norwhere near Honda level max wss faster in all sectors and cruising to victory so how is that fia stealing champ from merc

Understandable in a 'normal' year when they would be in front. Why tailor the car, or part of it, to a single track which may have repercussions on the other tracks? They knew (or thought they knew) it was only a one in 22 problem so not really worth risking a performance loss at the other 21 races.

It has not turned out like that, but only now they find out

To be fair they have the same problem in Austria and Brazil so it’s not just one in 22.

I also think that the thinner air helps out Redbull’s high rake aero philosophy. Suddenly they are not as draggy on the straights and they seem to be more aerodynamically efficient.