Lewis Hamilton has won the inaugural Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, but it wasn't a straightforward affair as Max Verstappen pulled off some questionable manoeuvres during the eventful race. Valtteri Bottas finished third by passing Ocon on the finish line.
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
Is just the opposite. U are wrong. Redbull is competing against odds. Mercedes team is a super power team, technically and politically. They still have advantage woth engines after 8 years. Renault and ferrari are still trying to catch. This is not rnormal at all. We have to thank max is giving us for the first time an interesting championship. He is doing anything he can to keep fight alive, even with tricks and over the limits moves. Otherwise would have been the traditional useless f1 championship. Think about
I totally agree with you.
Max is the only thing for now bringing some sport into those championship with the boring Mercedes domination
On the flip side, if it weren't for Lewis and Merc, this year would have been as boring as any other. Max would have won 17 races this season with 1 to go.
so we have both Lewis and Max to thank, not just one side of it.
It doesn't work in that side
We have a huge dominating team since 2014, so having this year a bit of competition is good, otherwise it would have been another painful season with no interest.
But as often, the underdog will not win at the end, always the dominating team winning. Remind me of 2012 in a way
warning!!! I'm slightly biased towards Max in this season, I do admit it, so read what I wrote with that context
I think calling what Max did a "brake test" tells that those people don't actually know what the term implies - braking hard and suddenly when the following car is very close behind with a high chance of causing collision
now look at the telemetry (which isn't great, because the brake info seems to be binary and not represent the true state) - he braked for 100s of meters and not nearly as hard as the 69bar/2.4G number would imply, with Lewis having all the time he needed to make the pass, he CHOSE not to for one reason or another and then had a look at the outside (when there obviously was much more space on the inside) before crossing over and trying the inside
stop calling it a brake test, because that is nonsense, they were both playing the same DRS game, and calling only Max for being "dirty" about this is looking at only one side of the coin
regarding the other things he did, it is tit for tat, Lewis not leaving him any space for T2 will make Max do the same to Lewis, and when Max slid off in T1 he was already losing rears (oscilating rear in the slowmo is the sure sign) at the time he tried to and slid off the track - again some will call this dirty, because it could be deliberate attempt at ramming Hamiltons car, could be, sure, but I think he was giving it everything to stay ahead (because that is the only way he could with loosing the tire battle and having a much slower car on straight), and like in quali, he lost it, few laps later proved that his tires were gone indeed - so what do you want to see - racing and a real fight or just someone rolling over and letting the other guy pass because the other one is obviously faster?
and what Merc were doing with distance forming to the restart and Bottas 100% deliberately slowing down to not lose out when they double stack Mercs after the first Haas crash? that is not dirty at all?
Also no one seems to notice Bottas nearly taking Max out again on the first restart - BIG lockup from Bottas there, but the other side of that coin is Perez nearly doing the same on the 2nd restart.
they give as much as they receive, that is all that is happening, because that is what it takes to win in this sort of wheel to wheel competition, the easily offended culture representatives don't seem to understand that... you can be magnanimous when you have big margin over the competitor, but that quickly goes away when things are very tight, that is what you should take away from this season, before calling anyone dirty
and regarding the 10sec "meaningless" penalty for Max here, same thing happened at Silverstone - again, 2 sides of the same coin, and if you think Max doing "brake checking" here is dirty, I'd expect to read similar comments from you in the Silverstone thread regarding Hamiltons overtake attempt there, but I won't, will I?
edit, forgot to mention the 2nd restart, Max got the lead only because Lewis decided to "push" Ocon off in T1 which opened the inside in T1 and clean line for Max through T2, because Lewis was way off the line in T1 making sure Ocon ran off the track and afair Ocon was ran off the road while they were more or less side by side, classic "Verstappen" move that I criticized over and over again and you know why drivers don't raise their voice about this? Because it suits them! it simplifies defense making the inside car always win, but how many said Lewis was "dirty" because he clearly ran Ocon off the road?
Last edited by jz11 on 06 Dec 2021, 11:51, edited 1 time in total.
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
There is a delta for safety car just like VSC
So I guess Bottas was within his delta to drive at that place. That's why he didn't get any penalty
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
Common man, atleast try to be objective, this is not Facebook
There is a massive massive difference between brake testing someone versus going for a legitimate move that end up badly. It’s not even comparable. Brake testing has no place in motorsport and should have been delt by way more harshly than pathetic 10 second penalty (and would have been, if the Masi and his crew did not have to consider the championship show aspect of it all). Just horrible behaviour all through by Max.
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
What? When?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
What? When?
There was no deliberate attempt of Bottas to crash into Verstappen. I think what is being alluded to was that Bottas completely locked up at the first restart, and that if Max had actually braked timely at that restart, he would have been hit by Bottas from behind. That might have been the case and could explain why Max went so aggressive on the first restart, although I do not think it was a deliberate choice to avoid Bottas, nor was it a deliberate attempt by Bottas to hit Max.
Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'
Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?
As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.
For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
What? When?
he is talking about 1st restart, Bottas barely avoided not running into Max, big lockup, and I wouldn't call that "trying" to take Max out, it is just what the track is like, the short run to T1 will produce lots of competition for space, I guess that was the track design intent
Perez nearly collected Max on the 2nd restart same exact thing, Perez was trying to pass Leclerc, trying to get side by side going into T1 to have the inside line for T2, and also locked up nearly collecting his teammate
I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was
What? When?
There was no deliberate attempt of Bottas to crash into Verstappen. I think what is being alluded to was that Bottas completely locked up at the first restart, and that if Max had actually braked timely at that restart, he would have been hit by Bottas from behind. That might have been the case and could explain why Max went so aggressive on the first restart, although I do not think it was a deliberate choice to avoid Bottas, nor was it a deliberate attempt by Bottas to hit Max.
Ah, that makes sense. That was a simple case of a driver outbraking himself and causing a lock up. Good job it didn't result in contact or the forum would have exploded!
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
‘Horner said: “Lewis gives what he gets and he's very wily with how he does it. These are two guys who are fighting over such fine margins pushing to the boundary. If you don't want them to run wide, put a gravel trap there."’
That really isn’t helpful. They all beg for tarmac run off so they don’t get punished for running wide/safety grounds and now he’s saying this nonsense. I hope he’s having a subtle dig at track design in general…but I doubt it.
How have the FIA lost their white lines so badly this year?
EDIT: Did a mod just delete the Grosjean/Massa Hungary 13’ overtake paragraph from my post?
Last edited by oT v1 on 06 Dec 2021, 12:18, edited 2 times in total.
Ok, Ver brake tested Ham.
On part of track where car runs 300km/h he gradualy slowed to 150km/h while having Ham few meters behind him for some time, and then he brake tested Ham by slowing from 150 to 120km/h and Ham ended in his rear end of car.
Most of people acting here like he brake tested him at 300 km/h, get your grip, he got penalty he deserves, end of story.
Ok, Ver brake tested Ham.
On part of track where car runs 300km/h he gradualy slowed to 150km/h while having Ham few meters behind him for some time, and then he brake tested Ham by slowing from 150 to 120km/h and Ham ended in his rear end of car.
Most of people acting here like he brake tested him at 300 km/h, get your grip, he got penalty he deserves, end of story.
Ok boss.
Except, the penalty for brake testing can't be 10 seconds, and everyone and their dog knows that.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk
Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?
FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.
