2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[F1NAC]

Neither fan of HAM or VER here. That yesterday was MV in his full shine. I cannot understand, how a driver that is fighting for the championship can be so dirty. You are fighting to become a champion yet you are one of the worst drivers wheel to wheel. He threw every dirty trick from his book to Lewis yesterday. Every single attack max just didn't bother to make the corner. And that is dangerous. It is opening a lot for next weeks race. Luckily that W12 was just a tank. they should take this car and put it in a museum with all the damage that front wing suffered.

That brake test (now we can call it that because it was proven to be a brake test) deserved heavier penalty. And yes Lewis not getting the information about Max letting him by ofc it was to suspect that Max was aiming for DRS( and based on 2013 we know that Lewis isn't that stupid). Also Max in that moment tried to give and compromise as much as he could Lewis' entry to the final corner which would hand him that position back easily with DRS. I mean max can be a fantastic driver, but his driver intelligence and agressive behaviour supported by his team and DR. Marko (Who himself said in public that they've got the evidence that Max didn't brake tested him) is dangerous to others. And still FIA is too lenient with him. And that is bad for the sport


Anyways... Didn't want anyone to break the MSC record for WDC's, but in choosing between VER or HAM.. Well HAM now all the way.

[Shrieker]

blind nonsense, i really have no other words to describe it

Fact 1: He could've easily rejoined safely in the first restart, he cut across Lewis by flying over the kerb and the intention was clear, stop kidding yourself.

Fact 2: He brake checked. This is corroborated by indisputable evidence.

Thankfully, the good thing about objective reality is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.

[alexx_88]

Today the redbull had the faster car, and only lost out because of Q3, and being on the soft tyre the whole race. Also their driver made things unnecessarily complicated for them from Saturday. Max could have won this race if he just kept it clean and be patient.

The race showed us the exact opposite. That Mercedes had the faster car and, even with the softer tire on, Max was slower than Lewis. Also, if you analyze their driving, Max was much much closer to the limits, getting right next to the barriers lap after lap.

Max had no chance of winning this race without Hamilton retiring. That doesn't take anything away from Lewis' win, he stayed cool and didn't let the pressure show in his driving.

[DChemTech]

blind nonsense, i really have no other words to describe it

Fact 1: He could've easily rejoined safely in the first restart, he cut across Lewis by flying over the kerb and the intention was clear, stop kidding yourself.

Fact 2: He brake checked. This is corroborated by indisputable evidence.

Thankfully, the good thing about objective reality is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.

He braked - that doesn't mean he brake-checked with the intent to eliminate Hamilton.
He was instructed to let Hamilton pass, so he slowed down. He slowed down over the course of several seconds, through which Hamilton could have passed him. But Hamilton did not. Max was probably well aware that he would get a time penalty if he would not let Hamilton pass, and of course he wanted it to happen there and then because of the strategic location, so to make it extra-clear, he slowed down even more, and that, together with Hamilton not moving to the gap on the left, led to a collision. That is quite something different than intentionally trying to damage someone.

And also the whole insinuation that "Hamilton would be right to expect Max to try something dirty". Please, come on. Max can surely go over the line with ambitious actions where a very marginal gap exists, but accusing someone of deliberately and willingly wiping another driver out during a mandated overtake is a whole different level.

[alexx_88]

It wasn't a formation lap. Therefore there is no rule about maintaining distance. Max just got his thoughts confused as you are.

It isn't unsporting at all.

If you're talking about Max's dirty tactics that aren't covered by the rules, then this goes into the same category. If you teammate is in front of your championship rival during a SC-controlled standing start (which essentially works exactly as a formation lap), how far away can he drop back? Using your teammate to mess up your rival's tire warmup procedure is just as dirty as braking late and not even dreaming of making the corner. Which, to be fait to Brazil, is what both of them have started doing, just to be in front at the apex and claim it was their corner.

[Mchamilton]

It wasn't a formation lap. Therefore there is no rule about maintaining distance. Max just got his thoughts confused as you are.

It isn't unsporting at all.

If you're talking about Max's dirty tactics that aren't covered by the rules, then this goes into the same category. If you teammate is in front of your championship rival during a SC-controlled standing start (which essentially works exactly as a formation lap), how far away can he drop back? Using your teammate to mess up your rival's tire warmup procedure is just as dirty as braking late and not even dreaming of making the corner. Which, to be fait to Brazil, is what both of them have started doing, just to be in front at the apex and claim it was their corner.

Difference is, what bottas did at thw restart is within the rules, there were several incidents during the race where max broke the rules

[NathanOlder]

He has been told that he is the best, the best at street circuits too. Hamilton has no talent and he is only fast because he had the fastest car. So I think there is a mental breakdown when he cannot compute why Horner's, Jos' and Helmut's reassurance that Hamilton is mediocre isn't making sense in reality. And here is tied on points... Hamilton winning 3 races in a row. I don't think he has processed what is happening and is reacting in the wrong way because his handlers have him believe that the world is against him. I would have enjoyed this championship more without the dirty driving. Pace alone and strong defending and craft would have been more satisfying.

Hamilton is winning against all odds. Just using experience to dodge bullets at this stage.
I hope he wins lights to flag in abudhabi and leave redbull with their jaws on the floor unable to do anything.
At this point Max is mentally distraught, you can see it on his face. But he has done very well so far as a 24 year old driving against really difficult competition. If he had been better managed he would not be having this breakdown.
Focusing on his speed and craft would have paid off more than focusing on dirty tactics.
It's almost as if he has conceded that Hamilton is the better driver. deep down but refuses to try and improve himself. It's sad, and I hope he is a cleaner driver next year.
Alonso would have indeed been a better opponent were he in the Redbull.

Is just the opposite. U are wrong. Redbull is competing against odds. Mercedes team is a super power team, technically and politically. They still have advantage woth engines after 8 years. Renault and ferrari are still trying to catch. This is not rnormal at all. We have to thank max is giving us for the first time an interesting championship. He is doing anything he can to keep fight alive, even with tricks and over the limits moves. Otherwise would have been the traditional useless f1 championship. Think about

I totally agree with you.

Max is the only thing for now bringing some sport into those championship with the boring Mercedes domination

On the flip side, if it weren't for Lewis and Merc, this year would have been as boring as any other. Max would have won 17 races this season with 1 to go.

so we have both Lewis and Max to thank, not just one side of it.

[Shrieker]

but accusing someone of deliberately and willingly wiping another driver out

That's exactly what he did all race. Their soft tire 'gamble' wasn't even designed to try and win the race, only to provide him with the chance to get close to Lewis so they could execute their design.

There is absolutely no sense in the way he 'rejoins' in the first restart.

And then the brake check was proven without a shadow of a doubt, and the design was the same: To damage Lewis' car and take him out. And it did actually succeed in damaging his car. Thankfully, it was not enough to prevent him from winning.

[DChemTech]

but accusing someone of deliberately and willingly wiping another driver out

That's exactly what he did all race. Their soft tire 'gamble' wasn't even designed to try and win the race, only to provide him with the chance to get close to Lewis so they could execute their design.

There is absolutely no sense in the way he 'rejoins' in the first restart. There is no high kerb on the right, and he can just go straight and floor it. Instead, he cuts across Lewis because the intention is to DNF him by either a) making Lewis run into him or b) forcing him to jam on the brakes in an acceleration phase, causing others to go into him from behind.

And then the brake check was proven without a shadow of a doubt, and the design was the same: To damage Lewis' car and take him out. And it did actually succeed in damaging his car. Thankfully, it was not enough to prevent him from winning.

It was proven that he braked. Telemetry doesn't show intent, that is your interpretation.

[zeph]

blind nonsense, i really have no other words to describe it

Fact 1: He could've easily rejoined safely in the first restart, he cut across Lewis by flying over the kerb and the intention was clear, stop kidding yourself.

Fact 2: He brake checked. This is corroborated by indisputable evidence.

Thankfully, the good thing about objective reality is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.

He braked - that doesn't mean he brake-checked with the intent to eliminate Hamilton.
He was instructed to let Hamilton pass, so he slowed down. He slowed down over the course of several seconds, through which Hamilton could have passed him. But Hamilton did not. Max was probably well aware that he would get a time penalty if he would not let Hamilton pass, and of course he wanted it to happen there and then because of the strategic location, so to make it extra-clear, he slowed down even more, and that, together with Hamilton not moving to the gap on the left, led to a collision. That is quite something different than intentionally trying to damage someone.

And also the whole insinuation that "Hamilton would be right to expect Max to try something dirty". Please, come on. Max can surely go over the line with ambitious actions where a very marginal gap exists, but accusing someone of deliberately and willingly wiping another driver out during a mandated overtake is a whole different level.

The telemetry shows otherwise. Definitely brake check. Knowing that, I have a hard time coming up with any explanation other than bad intent.

[NathanOlder]

Yea, it shows how lowsome some of them are.

2 penalties, and attempts to take out an opponent. And they all think it's perfectly fine!

Thats just the type of fans (not all of them) netflix has drawn in.

If u go into f1 official Facebook page you can see the comment section that they are flooded with comments calling lewis as the cheater. It's the same in twitter

Thats why I dont use Facebook, and only follow official people on twitter and don't read the comments.

[Shrieker]

It was proven that he braked. Telemetry doesn't show intent, that is your interpretation.

Sans the rest of the race, and his previous 'history', one could be swayed towards giving him the benefit of the doubt.

As things stand, only a fool would.

[DChemTech]

Fact 1: He could've easily rejoined safely in the first restart, he cut across Lewis by flying over the kerb and the intention was clear, stop kidding yourself.

Fact 2: He brake checked. This is corroborated by indisputable evidence.

Thankfully, the good thing about objective reality is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.

He braked - that doesn't mean he brake-checked with the intent to eliminate Hamilton.
He was instructed to let Hamilton pass, so he slowed down. He slowed down over the course of several seconds, through which Hamilton could have passed him. But Hamilton did not. Max was probably well aware that he would get a time penalty if he would not let Hamilton pass, and of course he wanted it to happen there and then because of the strategic location, so to make it extra-clear, he slowed down even more, and that, together with Hamilton not moving to the gap on the left, led to a collision. That is quite something different than intentionally trying to damage someone.

And also the whole insinuation that "Hamilton would be right to expect Max to try something dirty". Please, come on. Max can surely go over the line with ambitious actions where a very marginal gap exists, but accusing someone of deliberately and willingly wiping another driver out during a mandated overtake is a whole different level.

The telemetry shows otherwise. Definitely brake check. Knowing that, I have a hard time coming up with any explanation other than bad intent.

I am not denying the telemetry shows he was braking. There's no disputing that if the data shows so. But there is a whole universe of interpretations, and the default assumption here seems to be a deliberate wipe-out attempt which I don't believe for a second. That would be way to risky (a DSQ would be catastrophal). I think it was just a matter of frustration. A thought of "Why doesn't this *** pass me, how much more obvious do I need to make it, well, I'll just slow down even more", at the wrong time and place.

[NathanOlder]

Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'

Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?

As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.

For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???

[DChemTech]

It was proven that he braked. Telemetry doesn't show intent, that is your interpretation.

Sans the rest of the race, and his previous 'history', one could be swayed towards giving him the benefit of the doubt.

As things stand, only a fool would.

He has a history of making risky overtake attempts and blatantly closing the door on opponents to avoid them passing, not a history of deliberately ramming people of the track. The only driver I know that did that was driving in red and is praised generally.