2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[radosav]

Ok, Ver brake tested Ham.
On part of track where car runs 300km/h he gradualy slowed to 150km/h while having Ham few meters behind him for some time, and then he brake tested Ham by slowing from 150 to 120km/h and Ham ended in his rear end of car.
Most of people acting here like he brake tested him at 300 km/h, get your grip, he got penalty he deserves, end of story.

Ok boss.

Except, the penalty for brake testing can't be 10 seconds, and everyone and their dog knows that.

well if you read their statement they took into acount Ham's behaviour too, that is what i am trying to explain, Ham has his share of responsibility for this incident. And to all of those people saying Ham didn't overtook Max because he knew Max was trying to do some funky stuff, when you see mad driver on road you never go close to him, or drive few meters behind him.

[DChemTech]

Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?

FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.

It´s a shame what this sport is becoming

You are still assigning intent here.
There is a difference between brake-testing to get someone to ram into you, or braking because you were instructed to let someone by, and that person is not passing you. And yes, he braked at a strange time and place, but that still doesn't mean he did it with intent - he was probably expecting Hamilton to pass by using the gap on the left, or maybe he didn't really consider that Lewis was so close behind him (yes, which is dumb, but not intentional) out of frustration that Lewis was not passing despite the instructions. Then there was the whole aspect of poor communication, with one driver being instructed on the pass, and the other not. All these things weigh in.

[F1NAC]

I mean, Vettel got 10 secs stop n go for driving into HAM. How is that different from Verstapping braking and causing a collision? 10 seconds worth?? wow.

And how stupid can you be to let the guy pass you and then repass him at the very next corner?? How can you think that this is sufficient for FIA that you gave the position back?

[djones]

F1 is a big business now. It always was I guess, but the 'sport' side of things is taking more and more of a step backwards in favour of viewings and fake drama (the season going down to the last race etc).

There was probably a vote at some stage that asked people what they did not like about F1 and one of those things would have been Mercedes dominance. So they changed the aero rules for this year to specifically impact the low rake concept of Mercedes. Equally, they are now making stewarding decisions not based on right or wrong, but on what will be best for the show.

Other than the totally deluded, I think even the most hardcore Max fan will deep down agree his actions and lack of real consequence are now beyond ridiculous.

My worry is despite multiple attempts to take Lewis out, what will he do out of desperation in the last race? I'm thinking a first lap dive to cause a DNF, which will be classed as a first lap racing incident and nothing will be done about it. F1 gets a new champion that isn't in a Mercedes.... mission success?

[jz11]

to all the "brake testing" people out there, have a look at this video before it is blocked:


that is NOT what brake testing looks like, I can tell you that much, that is erratic driving at best and probably the reason he actually did get the penalty, (for 2nd or 3rd time I'm saying this) but the big reason for all this was that Masi informed RB first and only then Merc, what he should have done was to tell the team behind FIRST and only then instruct the leading team, and this all would have been avoided

[radosav]

I mean, Vettel got 10 secs stop n go for driving into HAM. How is that different from Verstapping braking and causing a collision? 10 seconds worth?? wow.

And how stupid can you be to let the guy pass you and then repass him at the very next corner?? How can you think that this is sufficient for FIA that you gave the position back?

very different, Vet drove into Ham on purpose, this was amateurish incident from Max and Ham

[radosav]

to all the "brake testing" people out there, have a look at this video before it is blocked:


that is NOT what brake testing looks like, I can tell you that much, that is erratic driving at best and probably the reason he actually did get the penalty, (for 2nd or 3rd time I'm saying this) but the big reason for all this was that Masi informed RB first and only then Merc, what he should have done was to tell the team behind FIRST and only then instruct the leading team, and this all would have been avoided

you cant change their mind, they made their decision

[PlatinumZealot]

What Max is doing is no longer a sport. He cannot be passed because he follows no rules. Attack from outside he runs you wide. Attack from Inside, he either weaves to the inisde to block you or he cuts the track on the outside. Without no limits it not a sport. Might as well handle the football, or travel without dribbling the basket ball, or cut lanes in track and field. No limits.

[WaikeCU]

All I can say is. I'm ashamed as an F1 fan following the sport actively since I was a kid. I'm actually worried to what F1 is evolving to. When there's no clarity what the gentlemen's agreement is in engaging and racing wheel to wheel anymore. That some rules apply more to one individual and some don't is just simply shocking to see. It's equal to having all the work and improvement done in the past, ready to be thrown into the bin. The problem is not that F1 is attracting more new fans. It's that the new F1 fans are experiencing what they are presented right now and that is what they paint F1 as the sport today. It's a contradiction to what it has been for decades. Some might even say this is just part of the evolution of the sport and that all what happened in the past doesnt apply anymore as of today. The FIA need to get a hold onto themselves, but as most likely change will only happen when something terribly wrong is going to happen.

[Shrieker]

you cant change their mind, they made their decision

Stop it, you're doing a disservice to yourself. This is not a matter of opinion, and you know that very well. Telemetry data is well established, indisputable, and he was penalized as a result. Not as much as he deserved, but everyone and their dog already knows why.

Again, the good thing about objective reality is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.

[Andres125sx]

Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?

FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.

It´s a shame what this sport is becoming

You are still assigning intent here.
There is a difference between brake-testing to get someone to ram into you, or braking because you were instructed to let someone by, and that person is not passing you. And yes, he braked at a strange time and place, but that still doesn't mean he did it with intent - he was probably expecting Hamilton to pass by using the gap on the left, or maybe he didn't really consider that Lewis was so close behind him (yes, which is dumb, but not intentional) out of frustration that Lewis was not passing despite the instructions. Then there was the whole aspect of poor communication, with one driver being instructed on the pass, and the other not. All these things weigh in.

Maybe people don´t know, but a F1 car releasing the throttle slows down faster than any production car with full brakes applied. No need to hit the brakes to let any other car pass, much less when you´re at 150km/h at a 300km/h straight, and even less when the other car is at your gearbox

It was a brake test, plain and simple.

[Fulcrum]

A lot of the situations that have resulted in this escalation of reckless driving simply wouldn't exist in a sport where the competitors feel more threatened by the consequences of their actions.

This isn't a justification to return to gravel traps and less safe cars, but the advent of heightened safety and practically consequence-less excursions off the track haven't done wonders for driving etiquette. No need to administer a time penalty for 'gaining an advantage' when you didn't gain one in the first place.

I also don't think the sport has done enough to send a signal that railroading other drivers off the track isn't acceptable behaviour.

[DChemTech]

Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?

FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.

It´s a shame what this sport is becoming

You are still assigning intent here.
There is a difference between brake-testing to get someone to ram into you, or braking because you were instructed to let someone by, and that person is not passing you. And yes, he braked at a strange time and place, but that still doesn't mean he did it with intent - he was probably expecting Hamilton to pass by using the gap on the left, or maybe he didn't really consider that Lewis was so close behind him (yes, which is dumb, but not intentional) out of frustration that Lewis was not passing despite the instructions. Then there was the whole aspect of poor communication, with one driver being instructed on the pass, and the other not. All these things weigh in.

Maybe people don´t know, but a F1 car releasing the throttle slows down faster than any production car with full brakes applied. No need to hit the brakes to let any other car pass, much less when you´re at 150km/h at a 300km/h straight, and even less when the other car is at your gearbox

It was a brake test, plain and simple.

Yes I know. We could see him release the throttle, shift down, slow down, and wait for Hamilton to pass. Which Hamilton did not. At that point, it's not outrageous to think "maybe slowing down further will get the message across". And as said, it was poor judgement to do so given the position Lewis was at, but then again, the position that Lewis was at was poor judgement given the fact of how much Max was already slowing down. Miscommunication and poor judgement, not intent.

[Andres125sx]

With normal stewards he should have been disqualified from the GP, but FIA main concern is the views, not the sport

[jz11]

Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?

FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.

It´s a shame what this sport is becoming

You are still assigning intent here.
There is a difference between brake-testing to get someone to ram into you, or braking because you were instructed to let someone by, and that person is not passing you. And yes, he braked at a strange time and place, but that still doesn't mean he did it with intent - he was probably expecting Hamilton to pass by using the gap on the left, or maybe he didn't really consider that Lewis was so close behind him (yes, which is dumb, but not intentional) out of frustration that Lewis was not passing despite the instructions. Then there was the whole aspect of poor communication, with one driver being instructed on the pass, and the other not. All these things weigh in.

Maybe people don´t know, but a F1 car releasing the throttle slows down faster than any production car with full brakes applied. No need to hit the brakes to let any other car pass, much less when you´re at 150km/h at a 300km/h straight, and even less when the other car is at your gearbox

It was a brake test, plain and simple.

thats the thing, if you look at the onboards, you can see that Max did what you say he should, he lifted, but Hamilton actually BRAKED to avoid going by, then he started to brake to make him pass, but he still wouldn't, and he moved to give him space on outside, then on the inside, and he still managed to hit him

yes, he could have and shouldn't have braked, but this is the game they are playing - the drs game, Lewis INTENTIONALLY tried not to pass him before the detection zone, don't ignore this fact, else he wouldn't think twice to go past any slow car for whatever reason it is slow

but the main reason is still miscomunication, FIA can't go and say that of course, same thing with the yellow flags in last couple of races, they can't start to take any blame because there would be no stopping it later, every decision would be challenged, and you can't have that

edit:spelling