2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Big Tea]

What surprises me most still is that MB did not pit Lewis during the safety car. What did they have to lose? If max did not pit, then Lewis should easily have passed Max on nearly new softs, and if both switched to soft Lewis should have been able to stay ahead. The only 'risk' was if Max stayed out and there was no restart, but with Masi it seemed to be a decent bet that he wants the race to end in flight. There's a lot to say about the whole SC procedure, but I can't help but think that MB did themselves no favors with this call.

If they had done that and conceded track position and then lost the WDC because of it, they’d have looked pretty stupid.

It was a no win situation either way. Well, it wasnt. The calamity is, that the team made its decision based on the process required by the rules and how much time that would take in their assessment - that being, getting the track cleaned up and allowing all lapped cars to unlap and then that the safety car would come in at the end of the next lap.

The math was solid. They did everything right. Had the crash happened two laps earlier, they would have come in, i’m sure - though after Jeddah, a potential red flag may have given an unfair advantage again to Max.

In the end, my issue with the whole thing isn’t Max, it isnt RedBull - it’s the sport that is putting entertainment first and sacrificing sporting values for it.

It must feel good to be a Max fan after yesterday - but had the roles been reversed, we’d never hear the end of it. This shows the issue when putting entertainment first. You are subjecting your sport to being a lottery and while some fans might like the unpredictability of such results, you’re devaluing the achievements and end up with hollow victories.

It devalued Hamiltons masterful drive yesterday in favour of a one lap race with one car on fresh tires and the other on old ones all in the name of “the show”.

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

[dans79]

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

its a possibility, he had this today a little while ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorspo ... -hamilton/

He was asked: "If you do come to be world champion this year and you fulfil that ambition, what ambition is there for you to achieve, what's the goal?"

And he responded: "In F1 not so much, that's it... you've completed it, and it doesn't really matter anymore or how many you win because you've already won one.

"Of course, I would always try to win more, but that's done... that's the final goal.

"I would have worked very hard to try and achieve that, and after that there's a lot less pressure.


"Of course, I have a lot of fun driving, then maybe slowly start to think about other stuff outside of Formula 1 to achieve."

[Just_a_fan]

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

I would be surprised. I think it'll light a fire under him and he'll look to retake the title in convincing style. Of course, it'll need a competitive car, but as we've seen this season - give him a chance and he'll take it to the wire.

[Big Tea]

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

its a possibility, he had this today a little while ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorspo ... -hamilton/

He was asked: "If you do come to be world champion this year and you fulfil that ambition, what ambition is there for you to achieve, what's the goal?"

And he responded: "In F1 not so much, that's it... you've completed it, and it doesn't really matter anymore or how many you win because you've already won one.

"Of course, I would always try to win more, but that's done... that's the final goal.

"I would have worked very hard to try and achieve that, and after that there's a lot less pressure.


"Of course, I have a lot of fun driving, then maybe slowly start to think about other stuff outside of Formula 1 to achieve."

I suppose it depends if there is anything that interests him more. He may be attracted to one of the American series or go for the famous triple. He is young enough to try something and come back. TBH I dont think he will go anywhere

[f1jcw]

Going into this race, I was already 90% sure this was going to be a straight forward Max win - no discussion. RedBull and he really aced this season. They won races they shouldn't have - and those that they didn't, they maximized to the fullest. Winning the last 4 races of the season was a possibility of course, but I admit I didn't think it would happen.

To lose it all like this in the last lap... it stings. And dare I say - in my personal opinion - detracts from a masterful performance of Hamilton and the entire Mercedes team and crew. They absolutely nailed everything yesterday.

Was the show better for it? For that one-lap spectacle? In my opinion no - and I'd like to think had the roles been reversed, I would feel the same way. Back in 2016 when Rosberg won the championship, I was bitter over that DNF in Malaysia, but in the end, he did the job over the season and as Rosberg was standing on the podium, I had the upmost respect for what he had achieved.

Same applies to Max - he drove the nuts of that car on so many occasion, rarely put a foot wrong and maximized every single opportunity. Over the course of the entire season, I dare say, this was theirs to lose and they - again, over the course of a season, absolutely are worthy champions.

My rage is solely directed at the FIA, F1 and yes, Michael Masi, for opting for that one lap spectacle at the end. This IMO takes away the credibility of what has been achieved and the authenticity of it. I also strongly don't like the sprint races, the red flags and standing restarts, as their sole purpose is to create chaos where none is necessary. I'm a motorsport fan and with that, I accept that motorsport can be inherently one-sided, boring at times. I hate that they feel that they have to produce something like this - even including certain racing incidents that were swept under the carpet all in the name of "the show".

My anger is at F1 for turning this last race into a farce and devaluing what a great season we had and also - in my opinion, devaluing the championship as a result. Max didn't deserve this, neither did Hamilton.

A one lap race where one of the competitiors had his leg tied behind his back isn't a sporting contest.

[basti313]

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

I would be surprised. I think it'll light a fire under him and he'll look to retake the title in convincing style. Of course, it'll need a competitive car, but as we've seen this season - give him a chance and he'll take it to the wire.

We will have:
- New aero rules with Merc doing nothing than preparing for them since two years, one year without cost cap.
- Same scenario as 2014 with Merc preparing car and engine as a unity.
- New fuel (RedBull out of the game)
- New aero with new cooling requirements (customer teams out of the game)
- Completely new engine for Ferrari and Renault

Does anyone really think the Merc next year will be not the Nr1 car?
The only big question will be how strong Rus really is. My guess is, that due to his size and weight he will still have two tenths deficit to Ham no matter how good he drives. So Ham walking away??? No way.

[banibhusan]

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

its a possibility, he had this today a little while ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorspo ... -hamilton/

He was asked: "If you do come to be world champion this year and you fulfil that ambition, what ambition is there for you to achieve, what's the goal?"

And he responded: "In F1 not so much, that's it... you've completed it, and it doesn't really matter anymore or how many you win because you've already won one.

"Of course, I would always try to win more, but that's done... that's the final goal.

"I would have worked very hard to try and achieve that, and after that there's a lot less pressure.


"Of course, I have a lot of fun driving, then maybe slowly start to think about other stuff outside of Formula 1 to achieve."

Why would he quit now? He is only 25, extremely talented and at the peak of his carrier in a top tier team. And all that talk of "I have achieved one championship and rest all is bonus" doesn't mean anything IMO. If he gets a strong car next year, he will approach the races with the same intensity and it will hurt equally badly if he is in a situation like Hamilton was yesterday.

[dans79]

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

its a possibility, he had this today a little while ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorspo ... -hamilton/

He was asked: "If you do come to be world champion this year and you fulfil that ambition, what ambition is there for you to achieve, what's the goal?"

And he responded: "In F1 not so much, that's it... you've completed it, and it doesn't really matter anymore or how many you win because you've already won one.

"Of course, I would always try to win more, but that's done... that's the final goal.

"I would have worked very hard to try and achieve that, and after that there's a lot less pressure.


"Of course, I have a lot of fun driving, then maybe slowly start to think about other stuff outside of Formula 1 to achieve."

I suppose it depends if there is anything that interests him more. He may be attracted to one of the American series or go for the famous triple. He is young enough to try something and come back. TBH I dont think he will go anywhere

Personally, I think his partner interest him more, and his desire to win was more driven by the people around him! Lewis is the opposite imo, he has actively remove people from his life that don't support him, or distract him from racing, and his goals!

[Big Tea]

There is also the possibility of Max 'doing a nico'. 6 attempts is a lot of work, it it in him to continue?

I hope to see a few more years oh Ham V Ves and Maybe some more in the mix though

its a possibility, he had this today a little while ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorspo ... -hamilton/

He was asked: "If you do come to be world champion this year and you fulfil that ambition, what ambition is there for you to achieve, what's the goal?"

And he responded: "In F1 not so much, that's it... you've completed it, and it doesn't really matter anymore or how many you win because you've already won one.

"Of course, I would always try to win more, but that's done... that's the final goal.

"I would have worked very hard to try and achieve that, and after that there's a lot less pressure.


"Of course, I have a lot of fun driving, then maybe slowly start to think about other stuff outside of Formula 1 to achieve."

Why would he quit now? He is only 25, extremely talented and at the peak of his carrier in a top tier team. And all that talk of "I have achieved one championship and rest all is bonus" doesn't mean anything IMO. If he gets a strong car next year, he will approach the races with the same intensity and it will hurt equally badly if he is in a situation like Hamilton was yesterday.

Next year Red Bull will not have the Honda support they have had and Ferrari will be back. It also looks likely Mclaren will improve and probably also Alpine. A two horse race is very unlikely and if it is so Red Bull is not likely to be one of the horses. All speculation, but based on reliable information.

As I said, I hope he stays, and just mentioned him having had a hard time doing his dream as it was discussed in a post

[Just_a_fan]

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

I would be surprised. I think it'll light a fire under him and he'll look to retake the title in convincing style. Of course, it'll need a competitive car, but as we've seen this season - give him a chance and he'll take it to the wire.

We will have:
- New aero rules with Merc doing nothing than preparing for them since two years, one year without cost cap.
- Same scenario as 2014 with Merc preparing car and engine as a unity.
- New fuel (RedBull out of the game)
- New aero with new cooling requirements (customer teams out of the game)
- Completely new engine for Ferrari and Renault

Does anyone really think the Merc next year will be not the Nr1 car?
The only big question will be how strong Rus really is. My guess is, that due to his size and weight he will still have two tenths deficit to Ham no matter how good he drives. So Ham walking away??? No way.

So no other team has been preparing for the new rules since they were published? Wow, that's really strange. How do they expect to win with that attitude?

Oh, but the teams weren't allowed to do work on the 2022 car for some period of time thanks to the Covid situation and partial rule change for this year - precisely to stop the big teams having a head start in 2022. You did know that, didn't you?

Red Bull (and Ferrari and Alpine) can design the car and engine as a single design. They're all in the same position as Mercedes.

Why is Red Bull out of the new fuel game? Don't they have a fuel supplier?

Customer teams have always had to design their own radiators as part of their own aero design strategy. Next year, with much tighter rules on the aero design of the cars, it's probable that the customer teams will just use similar radiators to their engine manufacturer, at least for the first season.

If Ferrari and Renault are doing a new engine, they must think there's a performance benefit from it. Who's to say they won't come up with the next "must have" design? Maybe we'll see Alpine topping the times in testing. That's what new rules do - they shake stuff up.

No one can have a clue about who is going to be the top car until next year. To say "they were the best under these regs so they'll be the best under the new ones" is to ignore history. Ask Red Bull how the reg change kept them at the top after 2013. Or Ferrari. Or Williams. Or McLaren. Or... you get the picture, I'm sure.

As for the rivalry between George and Lewis, we'll have to wait and see. George has been very good in qualifying, we all know that he's been the Mr Saturday of recent times. But his race performances haven't always shined. Yes, the Williams hasn't been a racing god's chariot of choice, but against similar cars he's gone backwards at times. So we'll need to see how that works for him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see George "do a Lewis" on Lewis in the first corner of the first race in 2022, just as Lewis did it to Fernando way back in 2007. Imagine how this forum will react if he does that.

[dans79]

I wouldn't be surprised to see George "do a Lewis" on Lewis in the first corner of the first race in 2022, just as Lewis did it to Fernando way back in 2007. Imagine how this forum will react if he does that.

He needs to work on his starts more over the winter then, I haven't been very impressed!

[Ryar]

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

I would be surprised. I think it'll light a fire under him and he'll look to retake the title in convincing style. Of course, it'll need a competitive car, but as we've seen this season - give him a chance and he'll take it to the wire.

We will have:
- New aero rules with Merc doing nothing than preparing for them since two years, one year without cost cap.
- Same scenario as 2014 with Merc preparing car and engine as a unity.
- New fuel (RedBull out of the game)
- New aero with new cooling requirements (customer teams out of the game)
- Completely new engine for Ferrari and Renault

Does anyone really think the Merc next year will be not the Nr1 car?
The only big question will be how strong Rus really is. My guess is, that due to his size and weight he will still have two tenths deficit to Ham no matter how good he drives. So Ham walking away??? No way.

The cost cap part is going to be interesting one to see how it affects the ability of teams, more specifically of Mercedes. They operated in large numbers and used their enormous infrastructure to run parallel themes of R&D with so much effect. Unless, FIA fails to monitor these, it's going to be a very interesting exercise to see if this brings parity to teams.

George would be no doubt hungry to compete and more importantly, the "rules of engagement" would bind the strategy team from freely exercising strategy options for Lewis like it has been this year, if George is ahead after turn 1. If Mercedes comes out with another dominant car, then it would be another "Lewis/Nico" show from early hybrid era. If there is another team or two in the mix and with "rules of engagement", it is not going to be very easy for Lewis. He has to first get ahead of his team mate and then compete with other drivers, which is going to be hell of a task. Otherwise, the preferred strategy would go for George.

If George has to make a place for himself, he need to perform like Leclerc did against defacto No.1 driver Vettel in Ferrari in 2019/20 by putting his own interests first. He is surely not going to lose his place if he does that in just one year. So there is freedom to exercise some disobedience.

But it's so exciting to see what unfolds in 2022 for Mercedes.

[Big Tea]

I wouldn't be surprised to see George "do a Lewis" on Lewis in the first corner of the first race in 2022, just as Lewis did it to Fernando way back in 2007. Imagine how this forum will react if he does that.

He needs to work on his starts more over the winter then, I haven't been very impressed!

I think the first thing Merc should do for George ( well, any young driver ) is get him 'an Angela' like Lewis. (remember early Lewis?)

He seems a bit hot headed and seems to get would up easily (Bottas smack on helmet). Anything that can keep his concentration on the track and not have to be concerned about trivia will make him better.


PS I think her role with Lewis is highly under rated

[Ryar]

I wouldn't be surprised to see George "do a Lewis" on Lewis in the first corner of the first race in 2022, just as Lewis did it to Fernando way back in 2007. Imagine how this forum will react if he does that.

He needs to work on his starts more over the winter then, I haven't been very impressed!

It probably has more to do with Williams hardware than George himself. When he sat in that Mercedes for that one off race, he did get a brilliant getaway. Then there is a good chunk of winter testing available to learn the Mercedes hardware in that regard.

[Just_a_fan]

I would be surprised. I think it'll light a fire under him and he'll look to retake the title in convincing style. Of course, it'll need a competitive car, but as we've seen this season - give him a chance and he'll take it to the wire.

We will have:
- New aero rules with Merc doing nothing than preparing for them since two years, one year without cost cap.
- Same scenario as 2014 with Merc preparing car and engine as a unity.
- New fuel (RedBull out of the game)
- New aero with new cooling requirements (customer teams out of the game)
- Completely new engine for Ferrari and Renault

Does anyone really think the Merc next year will be not the Nr1 car?
The only big question will be how strong Rus really is. My guess is, that due to his size and weight he will still have two tenths deficit to Ham no matter how good he drives. So Ham walking away??? No way.

The cost cap part is going to be interesting one to see how it affects the ability of teams, more specifically of Mercedes. They operated in large numbers and used their enormous infrastructure to run parallel themes of R&D with so much effect. Unless, FIA fails to monitor these, it's going to be a very interesting exercise to see if this brings parity to teams.

George would be no doubt hungry to compete and more importantly, the "rules of engagement" would bind the strategy team from freely exercising strategy options for Lewis like it has been this year, if George is ahead after turn 1. If Mercedes comes out with another dominant car, then it would be another "Lewis/Nico" show from early hybrid era. If there is another team or two in the mix and with "rules of engagement", it is not going to be very easy for Lewis. He has to first get ahead of his team mate and then compete with other drivers, which is going to be hell of a task. Otherwise, the preferred strategy would go for George.

If George has to make a place for himself, he need to perform like Leclerc did against defacto No.1 driver Vettel in Ferrari in 2019/20 by putting his own interests first. He is surely not going to lose his place if he does that in just one year. So there is freedom to exercise some disobedience.

But it's so exciting to see what unfolds in 2022 for Mercedes.

The team will play it as they always have - the guy leading gets to lead after the pit stops so if you want to be leading get ahead before then. Then as the championship develops, if they're only fighting each other, it'll be "fight but don't crash". If one of them is fighting a different team and is significantly ahead of the other on points e.g. if George is 50 points ahead of Lewis at 3/4 season and fighting e.g. Max by one or two points, Lewis will be asked to help George. That's how they've played it throughout.

Mercedes won't start with a defacto Number 1 as Red Bull have.

We saw George tell the team to favour Laffiti earlier this season when he could get better points for the team - George is a team player, I think. Of course, it's easy to be gracious when you have a golden ticket in your back pocket for next year. So it'll be interesting to see how it works out for him.

One thing I can promise - if it even looks like Lewis has been given a better call than George before the season has panned out, Lewis's haters will fill the web with invective.