2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Big Tea]

This made me laugh too hard lol.

2022 will be interesting. I think if the car isn't competitive, Lewis will retire. I can see him competing for a few more years if the car is competitive. With competitive I mean fighting for podiums minimum. I mean, if anything this season has shown he is still one of the best on the grid.

I also really don't see Russell beating Hamilton. I am afraid Russell is going to have a rude wake-up in 2022. Feel free to quote me on this if I am proven wrong next year.

Good - the aim was to inject a bit of light-hearted humour. We need it sometimes, I think.

If the car isn't competitive, I think Lewis will see his contract out. So long as he beats his team mate, there's nothing else that can be done. All drivers see it that way - your most important opponent is your team mate.

I'd love for Lewis to be able to maintain his current record of having a win in every season in F1, even if he doesn't take another title. He would be the only driver to have done it, so it really would be a nice little thing to achieve.

I think Russell is the real deal. I think he'll push Lewis as hard as Nico did. If I'm wrong, do remind me of this post.

I think Russell is going to be overwhelmed. I've watched a lot of his onboards this year. His race craft is just not there, loses too many positions he should not be, his race pace is almost never great, and he is a pretty dreadful starter as well. He is just really quick in one lap. Whether that is good enough to beat Hamilton on Saturdays remains to be seen, but on Sundays I have little doubt he isn't in the class of Lewis. If Russell was the real deal he would already have some memorable races, even in a Williams. Imo he should always finish in front of both Alfa Romeos and his teammate. That just wasn't the case. I was more impressed by how the late Jules Bianchi performed in a Manor than I am at Russell at Williams.

Remember though when you see Russell racing he is usually against cars he should not be fighting and is working hard just to get the speed to keep up. He has not got the handling and grip to put power on when he wants so in effect to him every move has a delay. I think his racing is good, its his mental toughness I am not sure of.

[ringo]

He should be fine if he doesnt paint high expectations of himself. Dont go in there talking about winning races and fighting lewis and then get your azz handed to you. Stay humbled and let the speed prove everything.
I still think Hamilton is the fastest overall in F1.
So george will struggle on race pace.
I expect him to be a tad slower than valteri. He can snatch poles from lewis for sure.

[Hammerfist]

Good - the aim was to inject a bit of light-hearted humour. We need it sometimes, I think.

If the car isn't competitive, I think Lewis will see his contract out. So long as he beats his team mate, there's nothing else that can be done. All drivers see it that way - your most important opponent is your team mate.

I'd love for Lewis to be able to maintain his current record of having a win in every season in F1, even if he doesn't take another title. He would be the only driver to have done it, so it really would be a nice little thing to achieve.

I think Russell is the real deal. I think he'll push Lewis as hard as Nico did. If I'm wrong, do remind me of this post.

I think Russell is going to be overwhelmed. I've watched a lot of his onboards this year. His race craft is just not there, loses too many positions he should not be, his race pace is almost never great, and he is a pretty dreadful starter as well. He is just really quick in one lap. Whether that is good enough to beat Hamilton on Saturdays remains to be seen, but on Sundays I have little doubt he isn't in the class of Lewis. If Russell was the real deal he would already have some memorable races, even in a Williams. Imo he should always finish in front of both Alfa Romeos and his teammate. That just wasn't the case. I was more impressed by how the late Jules Bianchi performed in a Manor than I am at Russell at Williams.

Remember though when you see Russell racing he is usually against cars he should not be fighting and is working hard just to get the speed to keep up. He has not got the handling and grip to put power on when he wants so in effect to him every move has a delay. I think his racing is good, its his mental toughness I am not sure of.

Like I said, I am basing my opinion on how he raced the Alfa Romeo cars and his own teammate. The Haas cars don't matter because they were too slow. I don't expect him to be fighting the Aston Martins, Alpines, Alfa Turis and up. Those cars were too quick for a Williams. But the other cars down the field he should consistently beat if he was indeed that special, because surely there aren't special talents driving those cars. Feel me?

[AMG.Tzan]

Wow Lewis won't even take part in the post season test with the 18 inch tires!

2016 had been a bad year for him losing to his teammate but still he was looking ok after the championship had been lost! This year's defeat though seems like worse for him than 2016 and in some regards it is worse! He absolutely bleached Verstapen in those last 4 races! He thinks (as I do) the whole Safety Car thing manipulated the outcome!

But guess what happens whenever Hamilton thinks he's been outdone by the system! He comes back way stronger! Will we see an even better version of Hamilton in 2022?? Or is this the end of his career?

[El Scorchio]

Wow Lewis won't even take part in the post season test with the 18 inch tires!

2016 had been a bad year for him losing to his teammate but still he was looking ok after the championship had been lost! This year's defeat though seems like worse for him than 2016 and in some regards it is worse! He absolutely bleached Verstapen in those last 4 races! He thinks (as I do) the whole Safety Car thing manipulated the outcome!

But guess what happens whenever Hamilton thinks he's been outdone by the system! He comes back way stronger! Will we see an even better version of Hamilton in 2022?? Or is this the end of his career?

Can't blame him. After putting in all that effort to claw himself back level and come within a lap of winning the WDC before 'Abu Dhabi gate' happened, I'd want to get away too.

I was thinking earlier ironically he has even more in common with Senna now. Both absolutely ****ed by the FIA.

[Marty_Y]

Mercedes hasn't posted anything on social media (Facebook & Twitter) about winning the constructors championship.

I can understand that they are in no mood to celebrate, if they had come to the race with the second best car or if Lewis didn't perform and made mistakes the loss would be understandable.

The W12 was the best car and Lewis drove perfectly, he and the team have been incredibly hard done by.

I can't see them getting anywhere with the appeal, I just hope that they will not decide to walk away from F1.

Lewis and Mercedes must feel robbed, I know I do as a fan.

Adrian Newey said the RedBull was the better car over the season. (and this race too).

They banked it all on track position just like Jeddah and it back-fired.

He's wrong, Red Bull's car had a narrow advantage for the first half of the season, mainly in qualification but in the races it was pretty much equal with Mercedes having the advantage of better tyre life. Mercedes dropped the ball during the first half of the season by squandering points with team and driver mistakes and misfortunes.

After the Silverstone update the W12 was clearly the better car, analysis from multiple sources show the W12 was the superior car in the second half of the season.

Lewis won three races in a row and was cruising to a fourth win that would have secured his eighth title, Red Bull and Max had no answer to his pace, even after Perez used all of his battery holding him up he pulled away again and managed to extend his lead comfortably, even when Max had a cheap pitstop for new tyres he barely matched Lewis's pace on older tyres.

The only thing that stopped Lewis from a deserved title was corruption of the rules, if the rules were applied properly he would have won.

Yes I am aware that this sounds like sour grapes from a disappointed fan but it doesn't stop it from being true, what happened was unprecedented and unacceptable.

I shared this in the race thread which I think sums up what people think about what happened.

[Ryar]

Those messages were when it was obvious who was going to be taking the fight to the opposition. They were also after the pit stops if memory serves. Did any of those messages happen in the early laps of a race early in the season when both drivers were competitive against other teams? I can't remember either way.

You should watch 2017 Spanish GP again!

Lewis was ahead of Bottas in the standings and fighting with Seb who was leading the standings. The team were fighting Ferrari in the team title too. So the call goes in the way that helps both the team and the leading driver.

Perhaps if Bottas hadn't spun behind the safety car in China and ended up only 6th rather than third or second, he'd have been with or even ahead of Lewis in the title race going in to the Spanish race.

The little details make the difference when calling these things out.

Sure. It was the 5th race of the season in a calendar of 20 races! So, in 2022 if George is ahead and fighting Max, you are ok to accept that Lewis can be used as No.2 at the 5th race.

[Phil]

Wow Lewis won't even take part in the post season test with the 18 inch tires!

Who's still convinced he won't walk?

[dans79]

Wow Lewis won't even take part in the post season test with the 18 inch tires!

Who's still convinced he won't walk?

The test isn't going to mean much, as the car will be completely different next year. He already did testing earlier in the year, and the best thing for him is probably to go home and get his mind in a good place.

[Just_a_fan]

You should watch 2017 Spanish GP again!

Lewis was ahead of Bottas in the standings and fighting with Seb who was leading the standings. The team were fighting Ferrari in the team title too. So the call goes in the way that helps both the team and the leading driver.

Perhaps if Bottas hadn't spun behind the safety car in China and ended up only 6th rather than third or second, he'd have been with or even ahead of Lewis in the title race going in to the Spanish race.

The little details make the difference when calling these things out.

Sure. It was the 5th race of the season in a calendar of 20 races! So, in 2022 if George is ahead and fighting Max, you are ok to accept that Lewis can be used as No.2 at the 5th race.

If that's what the team decide is right at the moment, yes, why not? As I mentioned before, Lewis has played the team game himself by giving Valterri the place back in Hungary and that was later in the season when the gap between them was even bigger. It's what mature teams and drivers do.

[Ryar]

Lewis was ahead of Bottas in the standings and fighting with Seb who was leading the standings. The team were fighting Ferrari in the team title too. So the call goes in the way that helps both the team and the leading driver.

Perhaps if Bottas hadn't spun behind the safety car in China and ended up only 6th rather than third or second, he'd have been with or even ahead of Lewis in the title race going in to the Spanish race.

The little details make the difference when calling these things out.

Sure. It was the 5th race of the season in a calendar of 20 races! So, in 2022 if George is ahead and fighting Max, you are ok to accept that Lewis can be used as No.2 at the 5th race.

If that's what the team decide is right at the moment, yes, why not? As I mentioned before, Lewis has played the team game himself by giving Valterri the place back in Hungary and that was later in the season when the gap between them was even bigger. It's what mature teams and drivers do.

Here is the original point of contention. You said, those decisions (messages obviously), were taken when it was "obvious", which I contended saying, there have been things done when it wasn't that clear cut as to who would lead.

Those messages were when it was obvious who was going to be taking the fight to the opposition. They were also after the pit stops if memory serves. Did any of those messages happen in the early laps of a race early in the season when both drivers were competitive against other teams? I can't remember either way.

[Just_a_fan]

Sure. It was the 5th race of the season in a calendar of 20 races! So, in 2022 if George is ahead and fighting Max, you are ok to accept that Lewis can be used as No.2 at the 5th race.

If that's what the team decide is right at the moment, yes, why not? As I mentioned before, Lewis has played the team game himself by giving Valterri the place back in Hungary and that was later in the season when the gap between them was even bigger. It's what mature teams and drivers do.

Here is the original point of contention. You said, those decisions (messages obviously), were taken when it was "obvious", which I contended saying, there have been things done when it wasn't that clear cut as to who would lead.

Those messages were when it was obvious who was going to be taking the fight to the opposition. They were also after the pit stops if memory serves. Did any of those messages happen in the early laps of a race early in the season when both drivers were competitive against other teams? I can't remember either way.

At the time, Lewis was ahead of Valterri and Seb was leading the title race. So they were already behind the curve. The team were leading the constructors at the time (from memory) so the team wouldn't have wanted their drivers fighting hard and potentially taking each other out. That would have been very bad for the team result.

This is all in line with their way of doing things so I'm not sure why it's contentious. Unless, of course, you're just trying to develop a narrative that if Lewis beats George it'll be because of team orders. You wouldn't be playing those sort of games before the season even starts, would you?

[Ryar]

If that's what the team decide is right at the moment, yes, why not? As I mentioned before, Lewis has played the team game himself by giving Valterri the place back in Hungary and that was later in the season when the gap between them was even bigger. It's what mature teams and drivers do.

Here is the original point of contention. You said, those decisions (messages obviously), were taken when it was "obvious", which I contended saying, there have been things done when it wasn't that clear cut as to who would lead.

Those messages were when it was obvious who was going to be taking the fight to the opposition. They were also after the pit stops if memory serves. Did any of those messages happen in the early laps of a race early in the season when both drivers were competitive against other teams? I can't remember either way.

At the time, Lewis was ahead of Valterri and Seb was leading the title race. So they were already behind the curve. The team were leading the constructors at the time (from memory) so the team wouldn't have wanted their drivers fighting hard and potentially taking each other out. That would have been very bad for the team result.

This is all in line with their way of doing things so I'm not sure why it's contentious. Unless, of course, you're just trying to develop a narrative that if Lewis beats George it'll be because of team orders. You wouldn't be playing those sort of games before the season even starts, would you?

I can't imagine the Lewis obsession here. The point is, contradictory to what you were arguing, there were things done so early in the season, not when it was clear who had a chance to fight for title.

[Just_a_fan]

Here is the original point of contention. You said, those decisions (messages obviously), were taken when it was "obvious", which I contended saying, there have been things done when it wasn't that clear cut as to who would lead.

At the time, Lewis was ahead of Valterri and Seb was leading the title race. So they were already behind the curve. The team were leading the constructors at the time (from memory) so the team wouldn't have wanted their drivers fighting hard and potentially taking each other out. That would have been very bad for the team result.

This is all in line with their way of doing things so I'm not sure why it's contentious. Unless, of course, you're just trying to develop a narrative that if Lewis beats George it'll be because of team orders. You wouldn't be playing those sort of games before the season even starts, would you?

I can't imagine the Lewis obsession here. The point is, contradictory to what you were arguing, there were things done so early in the season, not when it was clear who had a chance to fight for title.

It's not just who was fighting for the title as I have explained. It's also about the team result and preventing the risk that the drivers might take each other out to the detriment of the team result. I have no doubt that had the positions been reversed and the team thought their drivers might clash, Lewis would have been given the call "Lewis, it's James...". But Lewis tends to be the one in front when the calls are made because, well, he's the better racing driver of the two. If George can get ahead of Lewis in similar situations, he'll likely get the same benefits.

I guess the problem is that if you're used to supporting a team that has the publicly stated position of "we just want our chosen driver to win the title", teams which have more complicated requirements are confusing.

[Ryar]

At the time, Lewis was ahead of Valterri and Seb was leading the title race. So they were already behind the curve. The team were leading the constructors at the time (from memory) so the team wouldn't have wanted their drivers fighting hard and potentially taking each other out. That would have been very bad for the team result.

This is all in line with their way of doing things so I'm not sure why it's contentious. Unless, of course, you're just trying to develop a narrative that if Lewis beats George it'll be because of team orders. You wouldn't be playing those sort of games before the season even starts, would you?

I can't imagine the Lewis obsession here. The point is, contradictory to what you were arguing, there were things done so early in the season, not when it was clear who had a chance to fight for title.

It's not just who was fighting for the title as I have explained. It's also about the team result and preventing the risk that the drivers might take each other out to the detriment of the team result. I have no doubt that had the positions been reversed and the team thought their drivers might clash, Lewis would have been given the call "Lewis, it's James...". But Lewis tends to be the one in front when the calls are made because, well, he's the better racing driver of the two. If George can get ahead of Lewis in similar situations, he'll likely get the same benefits.

I guess the problem is that if you're used to supporting a team that has the publicly stated position of "we just want our chosen driver to win the title", teams which have more complicated requirements are confusing.

There was only argument, which was about proving that, it was done even when things were not clear, which is done. I like the skill of reading someone's mind, regardless of how wrong it is read. But gives a sense of intelligence though.