2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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toraabe wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 11:16
The low rake that everyone has do adopt next year. No one has been able to make it work better than Mercedes
TBH I do not think this will be an advantage at all for Mercedes. Sure they ran this generation of cars with low rake, but next year's car is almost completely different. The flows they built their cars rake angle the past few years will not apply for next year's car. All the teams will be starting pretty much from scratch.

This is why I don't expect to see teams to be as close to each other as they are this year.

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Morteza
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 18:07

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 01:33
RonMexico wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 21:00
Has anyone come up with a reasonable hypothesis for the large jump in Mercedes performance from around Turkey onwards?
The mercedes car runs well on a stiffer tyre contrstuction as the platform is more stable. When its on the softer compounds it doesnt deal well whem theyre overheated or even when there isnt enough temperature.
The redbull on the other hand has the best performance, but i suspect it natural degrades more over the race distance of its driver cannot maintain the pace as well as Hamilton in the mercedes. And we have seen this with hamilton vs Button and Rosberg. It's no coincidence that he manages the tyres well and maintains a high pace.
It is my understanding from answers provided by pirelli that all 5 slick tires have the exact same construction and only differ in the tread rubber. Do you have information that they differ in sidewall spring rates?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 12:53
George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.

When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
I would be disappointed in George if that is the case. Look at Carlos Sainz at Ferrari.

George is not a good leader of the team if he let's that get him down.

It will be Georges job to motivate the mechanics and get those wins in.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

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west52keep64
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Joined: 16 Sep 2021, 00:05

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 12:53
George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.

When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
One of the big issues Hamilton was vocal about in 2016 was the fact his "crew" had been reshuffled to Nico's side of the garage, and presumably that was the "crew" Valterri inherited. So actually, he had Lewis's championship winning "crew" from 2015.

This article confirms that after the engineers were swapped in 2016, they weren't swapped back for 2017 when Valtteri joined the team: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... h-for-2017

Fairplay
Fairplay
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 05:50
I am not sure if anyone can give Hamilton a hard time in the same car. I think his 15th year operating on the highest level, fighting for championships is unheard of in F-1 and he knows everything about extracting performance. Russel is young and will naturally have more reflexes and stamina, but it's hard to see him drive with and against that everlasting arsenal of experience that Lewis has. Even with 2021, I think Lewis had the redbull car and its #1 driver figured out after a certain point; hence the winning streak. I don't think redbull can beat him again with a slightly faster car.

He must start to decline at some point though, and by the signs of Alonso and Schumacher it could be around that 40 year mark. He just wont be on it for every race.

Russel is a good addition to the team. Bottas was so annoying in his lack of race performance. Russel vs Max or Sainz or Leclerc should be exciting.
Bottas annoyed me too. "Lack of race performance" was not his only fault, he was not a good wingman either [after he stood no chance of winning the Championship] allowing cars to sweep past him.
I have a feeling Hamilton will walk away and I would not blame him. If he does go the only only replacement that I can see working is Hulkenberg [none of the other sound suitable. Grosjean!
I think Russell will do fine whether Hamilton is there or not. He seems a very sensible young man as well as a very good, but honest driver.

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Tizz
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 19:15
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 19:36
Tizz wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 18:33
El Scorchio wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 17:50
I did read that teams currently running lower rake might have a better transfer of compatible philosophy than high rake teams, but no idea if there's any truth in that.
Hmmm, funny, I think Merc already acknowledged they are leaving the low rake philosophy...
I was under the impression from reading about the new regs that lower rake was better. i could have been misinformed.
No, you were absolutely right. My memory is no longer what i never used to be:
https://racingnews365.com/newey-2022-ru ... ke-concept

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etusch
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:31
Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating range

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Ryar
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Joined: 31 Jan 2021, 17:28

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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west52keep64 wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 15:14
Ryar wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 12:53
George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.

When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
One of the big issues Hamilton was vocal about in 2016 was the fact his "crew" had been reshuffled to Nico's side of the garage, and presumably that was the "crew" Valterri inherited. So actually, he had Lewis's championship winning "crew" from 2015.

This article confirms that after the engineers were swapped in 2016, they weren't swapped back for 2017 when Valtteri joined the team: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... h-for-2017
You are right. Mercedes did that because they felt both sides of garage started withholding critical information so as to not help other side. Iam talking about their current psychological situation. Motivation is key for high performance and in this case, they have had pretty difficult period with Valtteri since 2017.
Hakuna Matata!

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etusch
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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holeindalip wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:54
etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:31
Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating range
They were penalised by buying a suspension part. Lubricant and fuel ? Come on.
Aston Martin car is still one year old mercedes car hence mercedes also didn't change anything. just different at diffuser part. Is that all difference come from diffuser, if so why they can not overcome during season ?

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El Scorchio
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Joined: 29 Jul 2019, 12:41

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Tizz wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:14
El Scorchio wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 19:36
Tizz wrote:
16 Dec 2021, 18:33
Hmmm, funny, I think Merc already acknowledged they are leaving the low rake philosophy...
I was under the impression from reading about the new regs that lower rake was better. i could have been misinformed.
No, you were absolutely right. My memory is no longer what i never used to be:
https://racingnews365.com/newey-2022-ru ... ke-concept
I'm mostly relieved my memory didn't betray me! I think he's bang on when he says there will be a big field spread at first.

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El Scorchio
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Joined: 29 Jul 2019, 12:41

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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holeindalip wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:54
etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:31
Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating range
To add MB have a very good research and development team, more money and were pushing for a title. AM were not.

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 17:15
holeindalip wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:54
etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:31
Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating range
They were penalised by buying a suspension part. Lubricant and fuel ? Come on.
Aston Martin car is still one year old mercedes car hence mercedes also didn't change anything. just different at diffuser part. Is that all difference come from diffuser, if so why they can not overcome during season ?
It was a brake duct, not part of the inboard suspension. Getting the tires in the right operating range can be a difference of up 2.5 seconds. They put a stop of copying competitors cars last year so AM were pretty much on their own to continue the aero concept. Hamilton even came out and said that the rule changes completely changed the car. Mercedes have better engineers to get on top of all of it IMO.

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Ryar
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Joined: 31 Jan 2021, 17:28

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 16:31
Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
I remember having seen a tweet from scarbs where he said, they used it for a new nose, but for some reasons it didn't meet their expectations and they never brought it out. So they sort of lost their tokens.
Hakuna Matata!