TBH I do not think this will be an advantage at all for Mercedes. Sure they ran this generation of cars with low rake, but next year's car is almost completely different. The flows they built their cars rake angle the past few years will not apply for next year's car. All the teams will be starting pretty much from scratch.
It is my understanding from answers provided by pirelli that all 5 slick tires have the exact same construction and only differ in the tread rubber. Do you have information that they differ in sidewall spring rates?ringo wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 01:33The mercedes car runs well on a stiffer tyre contrstuction as the platform is more stable. When its on the softer compounds it doesnt deal well whem theyre overheated or even when there isnt enough temperature.
The redbull on the other hand has the best performance, but i suspect it natural degrades more over the race distance of its driver cannot maintain the pace as well as Hamilton in the mercedes. And we have seen this with hamilton vs Button and Rosberg. It's no coincidence that he manages the tyres well and maintains a high pace.
I would be disappointed in George if that is the case. Look at Carlos Sainz at Ferrari.Ryar wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 12:53George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.
When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
One of the big issues Hamilton was vocal about in 2016 was the fact his "crew" had been reshuffled to Nico's side of the garage, and presumably that was the "crew" Valterri inherited. So actually, he had Lewis's championship winning "crew" from 2015.Ryar wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 12:53George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.
When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
Bottas annoyed me too. "Lack of race performance" was not his only fault, he was not a good wingman either [after he stood no chance of winning the Championship] allowing cars to sweep past him.ringo wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 05:50I am not sure if anyone can give Hamilton a hard time in the same car. I think his 15th year operating on the highest level, fighting for championships is unheard of in F-1 and he knows everything about extracting performance. Russel is young and will naturally have more reflexes and stamina, but it's hard to see him drive with and against that everlasting arsenal of experience that Lewis has. Even with 2021, I think Lewis had the redbull car and its #1 driver figured out after a certain point; hence the winning streak. I don't think redbull can beat him again with a slightly faster car.
He must start to decline at some point though, and by the signs of Alonso and Schumacher it could be around that 40 year mark. He just wont be on it for every race.
Russel is a good addition to the team. Bottas was so annoying in his lack of race performance. Russel vs Max or Sainz or Leclerc should be exciting.
No, you were absolutely right. My memory is no longer what i never used to be:El Scorchio wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 19:36I was under the impression from reading about the new regs that lower rake was better. i could have been misinformed.Tizz wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 18:33Hmmm, funny, I think Merc already acknowledged they are leaving the low rake philosophy...El Scorchio wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 17:50I did read that teams currently running lower rake might have a better transfer of compatible philosophy than high rake teams, but no idea if there's any truth in that.
Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating rangeetusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:31Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
You are right. Mercedes did that because they felt both sides of garage started withholding critical information so as to not help other side. Iam talking about their current psychological situation. Motivation is key for high performance and in this case, they have had pretty difficult period with Valtteri since 2017.west52keep64 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 15:14One of the big issues Hamilton was vocal about in 2016 was the fact his "crew" had been reshuffled to Nico's side of the garage, and presumably that was the "crew" Valterri inherited. So actually, he had Lewis's championship winning "crew" from 2015.Ryar wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 12:53George couldn't have been joining at a better time than 2022. Completely new cars with new tyres. Both sides of the garage would have steep learning to, not just the drivers. Question is, how good was Valtteri's side of the garage compared to Lewis'. That side would be as demotivated as Valtteri has had been in last few years. It's hard to stay motivated when your driver isn't doing as well as the other side. Has that demotivation played a role in that side to have lost edge in understanding and setting up car? I hope not, but if they are, then George will be starting with a handicap.
When Valtteri came to the team, he inherited the garage crew/engineers from Nico, but since then, that side has had little to celebrate. It's human nature to degrade when motivation levels have been slowing evaporating. It also reflects in the way his pit stops have gone over the past couple of years. Same equipment, different set of people, different results. When Valtteri came he didn't bring any crew from Williams as it didn't make sense to change anything from the championship winning garage. But for George, situation is very different. It may serve well if he can bring some of his best folks from Williams. He can't afford to work with a bunch of people, demotivated and with regressed skill sets. Unless, he can inspire them to shrug off their disappointments of the past years and produce surprising results. Or, Mercedes decides to mix up the two garages and reform both sets, engineers included. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for George.
This article confirms that after the engineers were swapped in 2016, they weren't swapped back for 2017 when Valtteri joined the team: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... h-for-2017
They were penalised by buying a suspension part. Lubricant and fuel ? Come on.holeindalip wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:54Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating rangeetusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:31Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
I'm mostly relieved my memory didn't betray me! I think he's bang on when he says there will be a big field spread at first.Tizz wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:14No, you were absolutely right. My memory is no longer what i never used to be:El Scorchio wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 19:36I was under the impression from reading about the new regs that lower rake was better. i could have been misinformed.
https://racingnews365.com/newey-2022-ru ... ke-concept
To add MB have a very good research and development team, more money and were pushing for a title. AM were not.holeindalip wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:54Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating rangeetusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:31Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
It was a brake duct, not part of the inboard suspension. Getting the tires in the right operating range can be a difference of up 2.5 seconds. They put a stop of copying competitors cars last year so AM were pretty much on their own to continue the aero concept. Hamilton even came out and said that the rule changes completely changed the car. Mercedes have better engineers to get on top of all of it IMO.etusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 17:15They were penalised by buying a suspension part. Lubricant and fuel ? Come on.holeindalip wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:54Am may have the aero concept, which still isn’t 100%. The inboard suspension and dampers aren’t anywhere close, probably different fuels and lubricants and getting the tires into the operating rangeetusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:31Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
Aston Martin car is still one year old mercedes car hence mercedes also didn't change anything. just different at diffuser part. Is that all difference come from diffuser, if so why they can not overcome during season ?
I remember having seen a tweet from scarbs where he said, they used it for a new nose, but for some reasons it didn't meet their expectations and they never brought it out. So they sort of lost their tokens.etusch wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 16:31Hi. I want to ask a question. I have read something that says that before the last season, mercedes tech director had said they used token but don't say where they used it. According to same article replacing TD had said that they didn't used tokens but just made change under the car needed to match with new rules.
So if mercedes didn't used token and just made changes needed by rules, how they kept being so fast but aston marting couldn't while both cars fundamentally same?
