General Honda F1 Topic

[flexcon]

As I mentioned in the other thread

It’s all odd. I wonder is it a big chess game by Honda and redbull to freeze the engine regs by threatening to pull out.

Either way, it’s a Honda engine
Designed by Honda
Made by Honda


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[Hoffman900]

It appears more that the Honda F1 staff is on loan to RedBull more than anything. I bet when engineers want more stability they can easily go back to Honda when they want.

This also suggest to me RB doesn’t have the staff in house and likely won’t. They seemed to mostly be going after other manufacturers’ manufacturing staff as opposed to design, with the latter still being supported by Honda staff, but under the RedBull banner.

[mzso]

IP stays with Honda. Red Bull can use it. Next season, Honda will continue with track side and operation support from Japan.Honda will also continue to assemble engine for RBR in 2022.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull ... 2021-plan/

These are definitely facts. I fail to see any relevance to what I said though.

You said Red Bull Powertrains will get the Honda IP, they will not. They will be allowed to use it, but the IP will remain with Honda and Red Bull Powertrains won't get the full details (so they can transfer it to Audi!) by any means.

Honda Racing Corporation will continue to manufacture the power units in 2022, with Honda Racing F1 being combined with the MotoGP operation under the one name.

Well, getting to use it is still getting.

[mzso]

Honda to remain building the PU for Red Bull until 2025, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull?

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025

Why the hell did they even leave?

Good question, but I suspect every penny will be paid for by Red Bull now. Maybe they have financial troubles that they don't mention.

[Sieper]

Redbull has had to convince Honda to stay every step of the way. They wanted to leave F1 already after/at the Mclaren split up.

racing is just not a priority, certainly not anno 2022. For us, yes, for big car building corporations, no.

[ispano6]

Honda to remain building the PU for Red Bull until 2025, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull?

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025

Why the hell did they even leave?

When Honda announced they were leaving, the president at the time was Hachigo. While the new president Mibe shares the same focus switch, he granted the development team to use the resources necessary to accelerate the power unit to help improve RedBull's performance to win the championship. Honda is still leaving and the R&D personnel will still need to be utilized for electrification of their road going cars but really towards being carbon neutral. There are many in Honda who believe the ICE era will continue with biofuels and that a full lineup of electric cars won't happen soon. They are still expecting fuel cell to play a major part as well and will be developing their cars with alternatives to gasoline. There just weren't enough engineers to support all of these areas and also F1. But with Honda's recent success, it may be that some young motivated engineers are stepping up and learning and can be the next generation to pass the baton. Then the sages like Asaki and Kakuda can switch to applying the knowledge gained in F1 to the road cars. It definitely reminds me of the 90's when Honda/Acura had their best products!

[Sasha]

What I understand is the major difference is the new CEO who is a racing fan and he listens to the front line engineers and not the paper pushing middle management.
With winning the Trophy means the board will not say a thing but they must keep face.
Red Bull just gets more say with the power train.
Expect what everyone has been wishing for ever McLaren wanted a Honda V12 in the F1 Supercar.
Red Bull LMH designed by Newey and powered by Honda????
Must make 100 production models?
Is Red Bull the next Ferrari and McLaren?
Building production sports cars?
Just putting clues together and a long dream of mine

[Big Tea]

What I understand is the major difference is the new CEO who is a racing fan and he listens to the front line engineers and not the paper pushing middle management.
With winning the Trophy means the board will not say a thing but they must keep face.
Red Bull just gets more say with the power train.
Expect what everyone has been wishing for ever McLaren wanted a Honda V12 in the F1 Supercar.
Red Bull LMH designed by Newey and powered by Honda????
Must make 100 production models?
Is Red Bull the next Ferrari and McLaren?
Building production sports cars?
Just putting clues together and a long dream of mine

I do not see Red Bull building a car of their own, but there is plenty of scope for Red Bull liveried models with maybe a bit of 'extra grunt' included. I would imaging a SUV emblazoned with the Red Bull paint job would go down well with families with teen kids.

[JordanMugen]

Honda to remain building the PU for Red Bull until 2025, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull?

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025

Why the hell did they even leave?

Hopefully Honda will eventually come to an arrangement for naming rights sponsorship of the Red Bull power units built by Honda.

Good question, but I suspect every penny will be paid for by Red Bull now. Maybe they have financial troubles that they don't mention.

Not yet, but if they don't secure more battery supply and wheel out more battery EV products they will do. Obviously you won't be allowed to sell ICE products in the EU and some another markets beyond 2035. Even Honda ICE garden equipment is already banned in California IIRC, and I see Honda are already coming out with battery-electric garden equipment. It is logical that every available Yen needs to be directed to battery EV R&D, or hydrogen fuel cell EV R&D if that ever works out.

There are many in Honda who believe the ICE era will continue with biofuels and that a full lineup of electric cars won't happen soon.

...How much does naming rights sponsorship of Red Bull Racing, like Aston Martin or Infiniti, cost again?

IIRC Red Bull Racing and AlphaTauri put the decals in the 2021 season of their own initiate, and weren't paid any extra beyond the standard works power units supplied to McLaren, Toro Rosso or Red Bull. This is a quote from Yamamoto or Tanabe somewhere to this effect IIRC, but I can't seem to find it.

I also see there is a rumour that Red Bull could replace Repsol as the major sponsor of the HRC MotoGP team, should Repsol ever leave?

[NL_Fer]

Honda to remain building the PU for Red Bull until 2025, Yamamoto moving to Red Bull?

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hon ... nd-of-2025

Why the hell did they even leave?

It was pretty pointless to built a new manufacture and assembly plant in the UK to try and built the Honda design with the the same Honda quality and precision. Especially if it was only for 2-3 years. I mean, without R&D units, the teams need less than 100 units in total.

Only reason for Honda to leave was the resources they committed to development of the engine. They needed the developers for other purposes. They are the real capital these days.

[godlameroso]

The main motive of Honda pulling out was political. Honda and RBR have responded with a masterstroke of their own. As a result, they will remain as competitive as the OEMs. One benefit of being an OEM is that there is no such thing as a budget cap for the powertrain. They can still pour unlimited resources into the engines, likely a grey area that the big 3 were looking to game in order to get around the budget caps, and ensure a competitive advantage over the other cost capped teams. RBR and Honda have made several smart maneuvers and have essentially joined that party, and will be able to exploit the same sneaky play the OEMs thought they could get away with. They simply want an equal shot at competing as the supposed big 3, as the last 3 seasons have shown, they're more than up to the challenge.

[ispano6]

NHK to broadcast a two part Honda documentary.

NHK BS1 Special "Crown for the first time in 30 years! "Honda F1 Last Fight" will be broadcast on January 2, 2022 (Sun) with the following schedule.

Hopefully we finally see footage from Sakura with last lap reactions and celebrations.

Footage of Red Bull and Honda together the night before the last race.


Some clips of the end of the Honda documentary with Honda F1 engineers at Sakura and Honda F1 fans at headquarters in Tokyo Aoyama.


Asaki: We never gave up, and I think that fact that we were able to win will affect us for the rest of our lives. I'm glad I came to Sakura, it was worth it.
Tanabe: It was like being in a tunnel which we didn't know when we'd come out of, we believed in ourselves and our technology and continued our development with great conviction.
Yamamoto: While there is no talk that Honda will return to F1, Honda always has youth that are energetic and up to the challenge that I personally feel there will come to be a time again for a return.

[Wouter]

Weehee!!!

All the hard work and dedication through the growing pain finally pays off.

I couldn't be more happy for Honda and all the fans

I hope Honda release the Sakura race control footage of the last lap like they did for the first win with Max, let's see the first championship celebrations.

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It's not much, but heee .....

[ispano6]

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It's not much, but heee .....

I tried to keep it short and sweet when editing it

[Wouter]

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It's not much, but heee .....

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I tried to keep it short and sweet when editing it