I think the most important fact is that McLaren did their best time on day 1. It means they sandbagged on Day 2 and 3.
Team is optimistic (looking at their media interviews). Hopefully we made another step forward.
Roll back to 2009 and people were saying that about McLaren and Ferrari v Red Bull and Brawn. A big regs change is an opportunity to get it right or wrong.JPower wrote: ↑01 Mar 2022, 16:43I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?billamend wrote: ↑01 Mar 2022, 14:37Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:
- No signs of porpoising
- Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
- Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
- Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
- Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
- Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing
That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.frosty125 wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 01:08Roll back to 2009 and people were saying that about McLaren and Ferrari v Red Bull and Brawn. A big regs change is an opportunity to get it right or wrong.JPower wrote: ↑01 Mar 2022, 16:43I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?billamend wrote: ↑01 Mar 2022, 14:37Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:
- No signs of porpoising
- Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
- Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
- Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
- Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
- Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing
In 2014 customers were at a disadvantage but I’d say that has narrowed now as teams have a far better idea for PU packaging, engine modes have to be shared and customers must use the same fuel. Didn’t rumour have it that Mobil fuel was eradicating performance from McLaren in 2014 and also the story from a Lotus mechanic about hidden engine modes?JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 05:23That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.
McLaren were able to beat Renault in 2019 and 2020 by being their customers. With the same budget and resources, the advantage of the factory team is not as great as it seems.JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 05:23That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.
Not forgetting of course the years RB were a customer of Renault either_cerber1 wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 09:38McLaren were able to beat Renault in 2019 and 2020 by being their customers. With the same budget and resources, the advantage of the factory team is not as great as it seems.JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 05:23That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.
McLaren could have won 2 GPs last year, purely on Merit, but ended up with just one. That points to vast improvement, within the facilities they have currently. No doubt the new facilities would help.101FlyingDutchman wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 10:47As long as the gap closes to a manageable amount then it’s game on. You don’t necessarily need the outright fastest car to compete for wins. But you cannot be 0.5s/lap slower in race trim.
Let’s be optimistic with a realistic lens over it. Ageing facilities will not help to really compete but we can definitely close the gap and cause upsets depending on circuit, I firmly believe that
We’re not talking about an fairly inept Renault team(at least in hybrid era) though. The manufacturer in this case is the most dominant in F1 history with far greater resources than McLaren(at the moment)._cerber1 wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 09:38McLaren were able to beat Renault in 2019 and 2020 by being their customers. With the same budget and resources, the advantage of the factory team is not as great as it seems.JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 05:23That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.
Except the resource restrictions mean that McLaren actually has more use of their resources than Mercedes does of theirs. More windtunnel time and more CFD and capped budgets. Plus McLaren will benefit from any advances on the PU side that Merc make. I think it's a lot closer than you think in this regard.JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 14:29We’re not talking about an fairly inept Renault team(at least in hybrid era) though. The manufacturer in this case is the most dominant in F1 history with far greater resources than McLaren(at the moment)._cerber1 wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 09:38McLaren were able to beat Renault in 2019 and 2020 by being their customers. With the same budget and resources, the advantage of the factory team is not as great as it seems.JPower wrote: ↑02 Mar 2022, 05:23That's true however I don't see the probability of a similar occurrence happening under the current regs the way they are written. To me a customer PU team will always be at a disadvantage to the works team, in this case, Mercedes. But, that doesn't mean McLaren can't be successful regardless. We'll see.
Like I said, we’ll see…