Ferrari F1-75

[JPBD1990]

Interestingly enough, Ferrari achieved those speeds with lower rpm compared to Mercedes (article in Italian, I can translate if you need)

Would love the translation if possible?

Adding to the RPM topic, I found this analysis of gear ratios super interesting so will share as seems related.

(If you click the link and view the thread, it shows Ferrari vs the other teams as well, the first comparison just happened to be merc v redbull)

[Sevach]

Clearly Ferrari running with a higher engine mode, but I’m quite sure the fuel load would still be high. If the fuel is roughly equivalent to merc, it’s encouraging that the corners are very similar, if not in Ferrari’s favour.

How is it clear to you? Off the top of my head I can think of at least 6 reasons why it could look like that:

* Merc is draggier than Ferrari
* Merc porpoising forces them to lift before reaching too high speed
* Merc is simply lifting earlier for their own reasons
* Ferrari is running higher engine modes
* Ferrari is lifting less but runs the same engine mode as before
* Ferrari isn't porpoising as much and doesn't need to lift as much at the end of the straight

I don't know how you have enough information to say that it's clearly higher engine mode, it seems to me Ferrari is also lifting in many of those straights, easy to see in the first 2 breaking areas, but you can generally see how rounded almost all their breaking points are. Lastly... P1 in Q3 2021 was 1:28.9 and today they were lapping in 1:34.5 doesn't strike me as anyone is pushing here.

I was gonna say the fact that Mercedes has huge amounts of porpoising (even with DRS open) might be hampering their top speed.

Also according to Vanja, Ferrari style pods are low extremely low drag(and the shrunk airbox wasn't even taken into account).

[ryaan2904]

ah ah it's the same bullshitter who claimed that Ferrari would mount the front push rod ... how can you believe this bullshit

Duchessa is usually very reliable and actually has sources from within Ferrari. So I think you may be using a language that is a tad too strong there.

Are you expecting ferrari to publically say that they screwed the pooch with a missed opportunity and that the merc concept is already superior to theirs??!

This line of questioning from whoever asked it was always going to produce the expected answer.

I dont think it's a missed opportunity at all! Infact I'm quite unsure about its workability! But let's see it on raceday

[dialtone]

Generated the RPM graph of the same lap as above from fastf1. Ferrari engine seems lower RPM overall so if anything it's the one that is tuned down.

[AR3-GP]

https://i.imgur.com/OtuJznv.png

Generated the RPM graph of the same lap as above from fastf1. Ferrari engine seems lower RPM overall so if anything it's the one that is tuned down.

Look at the twitter thread above your post. The Ferrari has longer gears. For a given wheel velocity, the Ferrari will be at a lower RPM.

The better way to look (imo) is to look at the actual wheel speed (velocity), not RPM. From there its apparent Merc might be turned down.

[dialtone]

https://i.imgur.com/OtuJznv.png

Generated the RPM graph of the same lap as above from fastf1. Ferrari engine seems lower RPM overall so if anything it's the one that is tuned down.

Look at the twitter thread above your post. The Ferrari has longer gears. For a given wheel velocity, the Ferrari will be at a lower RPM.

The better way to look (imo) is to look at the actual wheel speed (velocity), not RPM. From there its apparent Merc might be turned down.

I don't understand how that would give any better indication... It's influenced by more factors than RPM for the actual power output. I'm starting to think you're trolling.

[Sevach]

Well what else are they going to say? "Yes we tried that but couldn't figure out how to make it quick so we went with a simpler solution"

Very hard to read anything from such a quote.

Care to elaborate why Ferrari’s solution is a simpler one? Thanks in advance.

I was making up a hypothetical response to highlight why these kind of quotes shouldn't hold much weight.

This isn't the time for desperation or chest thumping, on either side of the fence obviously.

Anyways...

[ryaan2904]

https://i.imgur.com/OtuJznv.png

Generated the RPM graph of the same lap as above from fastf1. Ferrari engine seems lower RPM overall so if anything it's the one that is tuned down.

Great work!

[Andi76]

Woahhh people are defensive. Sorry I used the word ‘clearly’ I was just trying to illustrate a clear difference in the telemetry. You are all correct, I don’t know what accounts for that difference. I put it down to engine mode, but could be wrong.

I want to note though that my post was intended to be positive - looking at the corner telemetry as opposed to the speeds at the end of the straights, Sainz is either faster or equal to the merc in all but 1 corner.

So… no need to be defensive? I’m just trying to share interesting things and have a discussion.

If you make assumptions negative for Mercedes and trying have a discussion you are publishing fake news for a Mercedes Fan... Didn't you know that? But seriously- i totally agree with you. Things SEEM to be looking good for Ferrari, but nothing is for sure in testing. Only after 2-3 races we will be able to say who has the fastest car and got things right and who got things wrong.
But there surely is a reason why Mercedes is saying Ferrari has the strongest engine...they are all doing their GPS-measurements and know very well how competitive their competition is or is not. So Mercedes has a reason why they are saying that. Even if they were often sandbagging in the past, they never lied in that regard.

[Andi76]

Just read on scuderiafans.com that the new floor Ferrari tested yesterday afternoon allows a softer suspension set-up to be used, but it also brought more oversteer. But it was rated positively as the new floor had "...the advantage to use softer set-ups, with a better compromise, which brings greater advantage in the slow corners. In fact we saw an F1-75 glued to the track in the fast turns(one of the lowest cars, if not the lowest)but still quite high in the slow ones."

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-succes ... n-set-ups/

Motorsport.com reported that the teams set for further 3kg weight limit increase as they all struggle with weight because of the need of stiffening the floor. The teams seem to have already agreed on that, but it still has to be formally ratified by the FIA.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022 ... 73869/amp/

[Vanja #66]

Are you expecting ferrari to publically say that they screwed the pooch with a missed opportunity and that the merc concept is already superior to theirs??!

This line of questioning from whoever asked it was always going to produce the expected answer.

In my view, it makes a lot of sense to hear Ferrari tried developing this nano-pod design, they were minimizing sidepods consistently from 2017-2021. It also makes a lot of sense they opted for something different if it showed greater potential - something completely different in this case.

To improve the aerodynamic floor performance with any given floor design you have to get more air to the rear wing and then to the beam wing, in that order. Getting more air on top of the diffuser is tertiary. Rear wing creates more suction and will help beam wing as a secondary effect as well. To that end, I'd never go Mercedes direction and start putting stuff higher, clogging up the flow ahead of rear wing. But that's just me...

And then we have the effect of wide sidepods punching a hole through the air for those big fat rear tyres...

Look at the twitter thread above your post. The Ferrari has longer gears. For a given wheel velocity, the Ferrari will be at a lower RPM.

The better way to look (imo) is to look at the actual wheel speed (velocity), not RPM. From there its apparent Merc might be turned down.

That post above mentions RB and Merc, not Ferrari. All we have is terminal velocities and there are a dozen reasons why Ferrari is faster and only one of them is Merc being turned down. Let's not read too much into unofficial graphs...

[AeroDynamic]

[AR3-GP]

Are you expecting ferrari to publically say that they screwed the pooch with a missed opportunity and that the merc concept is already superior to theirs??!

This line of questioning from whoever asked it was always going to produce the expected answer.

In my view, it makes a lot of sense to hear Ferrari tried developing this nano-pod design, they were minimizing sidepods consistently from 2017-2021. It also makes a lot of sense they opted for something different if it showed greater potential - something completely different in this case.

To improve the aerodynamic floor performance with any given floor design you have to get more air to the rear wing and then to the beam wing, in that order. Getting more air on top of the diffuser is tertiary. Rear wing creates more suction and will help beam wing as a secondary effect as well. To that end, I'd never go Mercedes direction and start putting stuff higher, clogging up the flow ahead of rear wing. But that's just me...

And then we have the effect of wide sidepods punching a hole through the air for those big fat rear tyres...

Look at the twitter thread above your post. The Ferrari has longer gears. For a given wheel velocity, the Ferrari will be at a lower RPM.

The better way to look (imo) is to look at the actual wheel speed (velocity), not RPM. From there its apparent Merc might be turned down.

That post above mentions RB and Merc, not Ferrari. All we have is terminal velocities and there are a dozen reasons why Ferrari is faster and only one of them is Merc being turned down. Let's not read too much into unofficial graphs...

Click the link in the post. The Ferrari vs Mercedes gear ratios is there.

[AeroDynamic]

Ferrari with a McLaren style floor on 2nd day of testing #AMuS

[AeroDynamic]