2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Juzh]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

[chrisc90]

It’s amazing to me that the pumps fail because of E10… I’ve been running E85 on my car for ages and I haven’t had a fuel pump issue (granted, had to change to an E85 capable pump), but if I can buy one for my race car, keep the fuel in for weeks at a time without issues, how is it that F1 teams are suffering from it?

Good question. I can only imagine that a E85 pump has different build up materials to it that your more conventional pumps designed for E5. I also think injectors need to be compatible with E85 - something which might not have been 'standard' on your race car. I know from my VAG 1.8T engines that standard injectors wont run E85, but the upgrade ones I have in mine Bosch 1000cc will run E85 - not that I run that fuel.

It'll be a interesting watch to see how the fuel pump concerns pan out in the coming races, or whether revised pumps will be used if the investigation from RBR finds there was problems with the pump. I believe it was also noted in testing it could be a high concern.

Yes, I did had different injectors (ID 1300), both for the E85 itself, as well as the additional fuel flow requirements… I’m just surprised that they would fail because of 10% content of ethanol… Hope is an issue resolved quickly

Maybe the blend of fuel they have come up with has certain chemicals in it that react with the resins/plastics/seals in the bottom of the pumps - which might not be used in other teams blends of fuels.

Im sure they will get to the bottom of it very quickly though.

[zibby43]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

I know none of that is directed at me, but just to be clear, sharing a tweet from a credentialed journalist is not an endorsement.

I had doubts, which I included in the original post. I wanted to lean toward a misunderstanding of the issue, but the translation said that she was hearing fuel load miscalculation.

As an aside, what are the odds of 2 cars having issues with the fuel pump at virtually the same time in the race?

What’s the common denominator?

[aran.vtec]

redbull ran the engine on a higher mode than they knew was safe, now they have all the reasons for “reliability” upgrades

[Dee]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

I know none of that is directed at me, but just to be clear, sharing a tweet from a credentialed journalist is not an endorsement.

I had doubts, which I included in the original post. I wanted to lean toward a misunderstanding of the issue, but the translation said that she was hearing fuel load miscalculation.

As an aside, what are the odds of 2 cars having issues with the fuel pump at virtually the same time in the race?

What’s the common denominator?

The fuel pump...

Same orientation in both cars, if it's faulty both cars will be affected in the same way

[chrisc90]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

I know none of that is directed at me, but just to be clear, sharing a tweet from a credentialed journalist is not an endorsement.

I had doubts, which I included in the original post. I wanted to lean toward a misunderstanding of the issue, but the translation said that she was hearing fuel load miscalculation.

As an aside, what are the odds of 2 cars having issues with the fuel pump at virtually the same time in the race?

What’s the common denominator?

Most common one would be how the pump is operating due to how the team has designed the car. Im not sure whether its a RB only issue as ive seen reports that there was fuelling concerns evident in testing. And the FIA allowing teams additional time to make further checks. Were RB just unlucky in this race? Seems unlikely given the timings of the failures.

Im not 100% sure on how the fuel tank, pumps, any required cooling is designed on a F1 car, but if Marko is right about a overheating fuel pump causing a lack of fuel, then hopefully they will be able to design additional cooling to the tank/pump without any compromise on the overall design of the car. Other than airflow around the tank, im unsure on how you can cool a fuel pump. Only way I can think is to somehow cool the fuel thats going back into the tank which keeps overall temperatures lower..

However, without knowing how the fuel setup works, thats entirely speculation.

[TNTHead]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

I know none of that is directed at me, but just to be clear, sharing a tweet from a credentialed journalist is not an endorsement.

I had doubts, which I included in the original post. I wanted to lean toward a misunderstanding of the issue, but the translation said that she was hearing fuel load miscalculation.

As an aside, what are the odds of 2 cars having issues with the fuel pump at virtually the same time in the race?

What’s the common denominator?

Actually a fuel load miscalculation is not an impossible hypothesis, since the increased weight, increased inertia of the tyres, etc. and unknowns in fuel usage during the race. They might have estimated fuel usage a bit too low and has pushed too far to the limit. It would be a costly mistake, indeed.

[chrisc90]

The fuel pump...

Same orientation in both cars, if it's faulty both cars will be affected in the same way

The pump isnt the common denominator though, since its used by 18 other cars on the grid who successfully managed to get the car through race distance. If it was a RB designed fuel pump, then yes, id agree with you, but on a standardised part..?

[Juzh]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

I know none of that is directed at me, but just to be clear, sharing a tweet from a credentialed journalist is not an endorsement.

It wasn't, I understand.

I had doubts, which I included in the original post. I wanted to lean toward a misunderstanding of the issue, but the translation said that she was hearing fuel load miscalculation.

This is not red bull's first rodeo. Miscalculation so big with both cars would be complete incompetence and would get picked up mid race. If this actually turns out to be the case then I'm doing a mea culpa, but until then I'm not at all buying this.

As an aside, what are the odds of 2 cars having issues with the fuel pump at virtually the same time in the race?
What’s the common denominator?

This I do not know for certain, but there's been a number of theories presented so far, also in this topic and in Honda PU one. E10 eating trough resin and frying electronics seems plausible, compounded by the earlier struggles trough testing. We can also observe highly irregular flashing lights pattern on Perez' car just after he reported problems, more electrical gremlins.

I've never seen lights flicked in such a way before.

[Dee]

The fuel pump...

Same orientation in both cars, if it's faulty both cars will be affected in the same way

The pump isnt the common denominator though, since its used by 18 other cars on the grid who successfully managed to get the car through race distance. If it was a RB designed fuel pump, then yes, id agree with you, but on a standardised part..?

But not in the same orientation, packaging no?

And its not just RB, Mclaren had issues and some other teams during testing

[Rodak]

E10 in road cars is definitely giving problems. In my car the fuel pump broke down probably because of the hygroscopic nature of E10 and not using petrol that much because of LPG. But thats most probably another cause than what happened here.

We've had 10% ethanol fuel here in the States for decades and there don't seem to be problems with it. It's true older type plastics react poorly with it, but manufacturers changed piping and other plastic parts and there hasn't been an issue.

[chrisc90]

I've never seen lights flicked in such a way before.

Yeah, I seen the odd flashing lights on the back, sometimes the centre one only, sometimes a single side like seen in the video. Something very strange going on there.

But not in the same orientation, packaging no?

And its not just RB, Mclaren had issues and some other teams during testing

Orientation I dont know. But I imagine there are strict rules on fuel tank location within the chassis. I thought id read another team had issues during testing, but I couldnt recall who it was.

[PlatinumZealot]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

He might be right because it could be the level of fuel in there. You might say that it should have showed up in qualifying then, and that may have been the case... but let's wait to hear if any more details come out.

Anyways guys, Max was Max, but what did you think of Checo's performance today? improvement?

[Bill_Kar]

There are reports in the paddock that the RBR cars may have run out of fuel, as opposed to pump problems.

Of course, this journo could be misunderstanding the precise nature of the issue.

https://twitter.com/jucerasoli/status/1 ... 93314?s=21

Verstappen broke down 3 laps before the end and we've had a number of laps behind SC, so this theory is complete BS, not worth considering even for 1 second. Not one credible source would indicate lack of fuel based on these facts and no credible journalist who cares about his reputation would tweet such a thing.
The only way in which you could say they ran out of fuel is because of fuel pump not delivering fuel, but that's not what's implied in that tweet.

He might be right because it could be the level of fuel in there. You might say that it should have showed up in qualifying then, and that may have been the case... but let's wait to hear if any more details come out.

Anyways guys, Max was Max, but what did you think of Checo's performance today? improvement?

To me, it's a bit tricky. He was on an awkward strategy, but apart from that, he didn't do anything special. I expected him to at least challenge Sainz when he was on the softs and the Spaniard was on the mediums.

He benefitted a lot because Mercedes was way back, but it's only the first race so let's see.

[silver]

Red Bull have done enough testing in preseason to know if there were any mileage issues. If they were running out of fuel, they would know and would have asked the drivers to manage. It just happened suddenly which says they didn't short fuel. Besides, Verstappen was having steering track rod issues, which all hit in one go. They should be good for next race.