maxpp wrote: ↑23 Mar 2022, 13:22
SmallSoldier wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 19:47
maxpp wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 05:17
Aston martin are losing 0.75 seconds from porpoising solutions, and are working on revamping their car. And btw using your eyes to analyze a cars aero is all we can do, do you have their wind tunnel and CFD data? NO. You can figure out the core concept of a car by seeing it just with your eyes, the details are different.
You “can” use your eyes to analyze aero… You most probably won’t be right, unless you are an experience aerodynamicist… Most of us fans, do not have the knowledge, experience and understanding to visually determine why a concept would or wouldn’t work… The example this season with Ferrari is a classic, where everyone underestimate them by saying that it was bulky and therefore draggy, while Mercedes was the slimmest and therefore with very low drag… It appears that is the complete opposite.
It’s too early to say if the MCL36 concept is bad, is it just a matter of setup? Is it possible that because of how constrained they have to be for parts they didn’t had the right combination of Rear Wing / Front Wing that would suit Bahrain? Is the size of the Tunnel Inlets the problem? Is it the sidepods? Is it the new suspension layout?… We just don’t know at this point and without knowing what or where is the deficit, we can’t bluntly say that is “the concept”.
It is clear that something isn’t working as expected and it seems that even the team is trying to find those answers… Unluckily, we can only wait and see what they come up with, but I don’t think it will be soon.
Very nice consistency in your opinion, at first it was eye aero is pointless and now it is only when done by experts does it work. Welcome to the normal world, all of us who are interested head over to channels like kyle engineers or B sport to see what their opinions are and thats how eye aero for us fan works, we learn from them and then apply it ourselves. And yes it IS the "concept" that is wrong, their taking the path that every other team chose not to take, look at their underbody, look at their sidepods, do you see any consistency with the rest of the grid? no. So when it doesnt work its obvious they went the wrong direction. This is my opinion so feel free to call me out on it, I am studying mechanical engineering as of now and am trying to get to f1, so I visit these forums and seeing such charged discussions turns me off totally. I think they just cant divert the front wheel wake far enough so they are having problems, which teams have limited this issue? Ferrari and red bull, what do they have? wide sidepods. Which teams are struggling right now? mercedes, mclaren,aston,williams. 3/4 of these have narrow sidepods and aston is already working on revamping their car by Miami I think.
I don’t think there is lack of consistency in my opinion… CFD eyes from regular fans (like you, me and 99.99% of forum members / fans out there) don’t work… An aerodynamicist that has worked on F1 may have a better idea of what is going on and even they without doing actual CFD can get it wrong (since you watch Kyle, B-Sport, etc… You should have noted their disclosures about not having done the actual CFD work and that they are “guessing” what is happening in some parts of the car… As a matter of fact, McLaren concept been “wrong” wasn’t something that they came up on their initial analysis… So I will stick with my opinion that CFD eyes don’t work, you can get a general idea of what certain parts of the car do and how they do it, but from there to determine if a concept works or not based on visually looking at the car is flawed.
Now, if you are going to argue that because the car is not performing then the concept is wrong, it has nothing to do with CFD eyes, you are correlating a result with the concept… You have 4 very different concepts between McLaren, Aston Martin, Mercedes and Williams and based on Bahrain, none of them work (at least not as well as Ferrari and Red Bull in Mercedes case), very different treatments of the front wake on all 4 of them and no one with CFD eyes could have called it before the first race.
I won’t argue that there is lack of performance, why is that happening is something that none of us know at this point (the team with millions of dollars worth of staff comprised of experienced Engineers and Aerodynamicists are currently trying to figure that out, you really think that your CFD eyes know more than they do? You might and F1 might be the right place for you, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
I also doubt that McLaren simply forgot to take a look at the impact of the front tire wake (after every effort in F1 for the past several decades to manage it).
It’s your opinion and I respect it, I just don’t think that anyone can make a categorical statement of what is wrong with the car without having the data and information to do so, therefore those opinions / statements will be challenged.