2022 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[Big Tea]

By the end of first 3 races, AM is officially last team in construction standing.
With crappy design concept, With one driver not improving & another on downward trajectory.....where they will end this season?

All compounded by losing Otmar, who seemed to be the guy holding the whole thing together

[diffuser]

By the end of first 3 races, AM is officially last team in construction standing.
With crappy design concept, With one driver not improving & another on downward trajectory.....where they will end this season?

All compounded by losing Otmar, who seemed to be the guy holding the whole thing together

WEll, not sure you can put this squarely on the lack of Otmar, although I like him and happy he is at Alpine. Think thier biggest problem is they have 2 lousy drivers. A team can live with 1 lousy driver but 2 ?


But I agree AMR should never have taken the reins out of OtMar's hands. I bet he had nothing to do with hiring Vettel and letting Perez go.

If you look at Alpine, they basicaly built a good car without a team principle. Otmar didn't start till around the first preseason test.

[Zynerji]

Vettel should retire, and I am a huge fan. Better to take 4 into the history books than show the world your ass for 10 years in midfield cars...

[NAPI10]

By the end of first 3 races, AM is officially last team in construction standing.
With crappy design concept, With one driver not improving & another on downward trajectory.....where they will end this season?

All compounded by losing Otmar, who seemed to be the guy holding the whole thing together

WEll, not sure you can put this squarely on the lack of Otmar, although I like him and happy he is at Alpine. Think thier biggest problem is they have 2 lousy drivers. A team can live with 1 lousy driver but 2 ?


But I agree AMR should never have taken the reins out of OtMar's hands. I bet he had nothing to do with hiring Vettel and letting Perez go.

If you look at Alpine, they basicaly built a good car without a team principle. Otmar didn't start till around the first preseason test.

Is there anything to salvage from this season? There is no point in bringing upgrade to this design philosophy.Gap to mid-field is too large to cover with this car.
Next year is going to be 'Make or Break' year for AM. If the team doesn't take step forward(at least top of Mid-field); Lawrence will go into 'Sell/Exit' mode.

[diffuser]

All compounded by losing Otmar, who seemed to be the guy holding the whole thing together

WEll, not sure you can put this squarely on the lack of Otmar, although I like him and happy he is at Alpine. Think thier biggest problem is they have 2 lousy drivers. A team can live with 1 lousy driver but 2 ?


But I agree AMR should never have taken the reins out of OtMar's hands. I bet he had nothing to do with hiring Vettel and letting Perez go.

If you look at Alpine, they basicaly built a good car without a team principle. Otmar didn't start till around the first preseason test.

Is there anything to salvage from this season? There is no point in bringing upgrade to this design philosophy.Gap to mid-field is too large to cover with this car.
Next year is going to be 'Make or Break' year for AM. If the team doesn't take step forward(at least top of Mid-field); Lawrence will go into 'Sell/Exit' mode.

Maybe they'll get purchased buy VW.

They still need to figure out what is wrong with this car. Can't see how they don't have the same problem next year if they don't.

Also, they're probably not as bad as they look. The work around for porpoising is probably just making it look a lot worse.

[NL_Fer]

I feel Lawrence Stroll brought in allot of money, but also killed the efficiency of this team. They built several top 10 cars, with a minimal budget. But now hardly reach midfield with a midfield budget. And now Otmar also hinted at Stroll sr wants to much hands on influence on the team.

[diffuser]

I feel Lawrence Stroll brought in allot of money, but also killed the efficiency of this team. They built several top 10 cars, with a minimal budget. But now hardly reach midfield with a midfield budget. And now Otmar also hinted at Stroll sr wants to much hands on influence on the team.

Yep, he needs to be more of a "I'll get you want you tell me you need guy".

Fallows hasn't arrived yet. Isn't he do in April?

Be a few months before his impact will start to be felt. On the track even longer.

[prendrefeu]

Maybe they'll get purchased buy VW.

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

[tpe]

Red Bull/ Renault?

[continuum16]

Maybe they'll get purchased buy VW.

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

Not to get sidetracked, but I'm pretty sure the Renault works team failed to beat its customers in 2009-11 (Red Bull) and 2016-2020 (Red Bull, then McLaren).

The question for Audi/VW is rather they'd have AM or Sauber I think; AM would come with a brand new factory, but marketing as Aston Martin-Audi seems convoluted (although obviously right now it's AM-Merc). I think Sauber would be more receptive to an outright takeover, which seems to be the preferred route from Audi. The team seems to be at a fork in the road, pushing and pulling in a lot of directions. For the sake of the people there I hope they improve enough this year to save face, because I fear Andy Green will be sitting quite uncomfortably for the next few months.

[NAPI10]

Maybe they'll get purchased buy VW.

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

Not to get sidetracked, but I'm pretty sure the Renault works team failed to beat its customers in 2009-11 (Red Bull) and 2016-2020 (Red Bull, then McLaren).

The question for Audi/VW is rather they'd have AM or Sauber I think; AM would come with a brand new factory, but marketing as Aston Martin-Audi seems convoluted (although obviously right now it's AM-Merc). I think Sauber would be more receptive to an outright takeover, which seems to be the preferred route from Audi. The team seems to be at a fork in the road, pushing and pulling in a lot of directions. For the sake of the people there I hope they improve enough this year to save face, because I fear Andy Green will be sitting quite uncomfortably for the next few months.

Andy Green should not be part of F1 car design anymore

[continuum16]

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

Not to get sidetracked, but I'm pretty sure the Renault works team failed to beat its customers in 2009-11 (Red Bull) and 2016-2020 (Red Bull, then McLaren).

The question for Audi/VW is rather they'd have AM or Sauber I think; AM would come with a brand new factory, but marketing as Aston Martin-Audi seems convoluted (although obviously right now it's AM-Merc). I think Sauber would be more receptive to an outright takeover, which seems to be the preferred route from Audi. The team seems to be at a fork in the road, pushing and pulling in a lot of directions. For the sake of the people there I hope they improve enough this year to save face, because I fear Andy Green will be sitting quite uncomfortably for the next few months.

Andy Green should not be part of F1 car design anymore

At the rate they're going, you're probably right and he won't be for much longer. The 'old guard' is slowly being shuffled out the door. First Perez, then Otmar, surely Green will be next; Fallows is clearly going to be heading this up. Also the last competitive car they "designed from scratch" was probably 2017/18, so it's been 5 years since he's produced something good.

[diffuser]

Maybe they'll get purchased buy VW.

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

Like to see you proove that was the PU doing doing and not the $$$ the top team had over everyone else.

Need to start looking at trends from this day forward. Lots of changes were introduced that prevent the PU manufacturer from having and edge.

[diffuser]

That would be the best scenario for the long-haul because it would allow Aston Martin, both in racing and production vehicles, to get away from Mercedes engines.

The best scenario is for each team to produce its own engines (most teams representing a production marque, exceptions of RedBull/Alpha Tauri). Why? The trend of a team using a purchased-engine performing worse than the team with their own engine is not a coincidence, and I'd like someone to point me to a year in which a team with a purchased PU performed better than the team with their own marque's PU.

Not to get sidetracked, but I'm pretty sure the Renault works team failed to beat its customers in 2009-11 (Red Bull) and 2016-2020 (Red Bull, then McLaren).

The question for Audi/VW is rather they'd have AM or Sauber I think; AM would come with a brand new factory, but marketing as Aston Martin-Audi seems convoluted (although obviously right now it's AM-Merc). I think Sauber would be more receptive to an outright takeover, which seems to be the preferred route from Audi. The team seems to be at a fork in the road, pushing and pulling in a lot of directions. For the sake of the people there I hope they improve enough this year to save face, because I fear Andy Green will be sitting quite uncomfortably for the next few months.

Andy Green should not be part of F1 car design anymore

As of 2022 Green was promoted to Chief Technical Officer as part of a reshuffle with Dan Fallows to take his place as technical director.


He doesn't really have alot to do with the day to day. He's a manager. Spends alteast as much time on improving efficiancy. The put Fallows bellow him. so he should have more car focus than CFO.

[aran.vtec]

I feel Lawrence Stroll brought in allot of money, but also killed the efficiency of this team. They built several top 10 cars, with a minimal budget. But now hardly reach midfield with a midfield budget. And now Otmar also hinted at Stroll sr wants to much hands on influence on the team.

Yep, he needs to be more of a "I'll get you want you tell me you need guy".

Fallows hasn't arrived yet. Isn't he do in April?

Be a few months before his impact will start to be felt. On the track even longer.

This is exactly how I thought the team should of been handled, New regulations + budget cap played right into the "old" teams hands and gave the team the opportunity to become a front runner but ever since Lawrence stroll and the pink merc the team has taken a step back every year