Mercedes W13

[Zynerji]

Interesting to think of a sidepod reversion.

That backtrack may be something to consider. Unless, of course, preseason testing showed the current version to still be significantly better...

[101FlyingDutchman]

It’s highly likely that it’s all been considered already. They have been the dominant team for a reason. I guess you just can’t do anything until you’ve pinpointed the correlation discrepancy that they most clearly have

[taperoo2k]

When it's as bad as this they might as well experiment with running the old spec car from the 1st Barcelona test with one car.

The only reason to do that would be to determine if it's the sidepod design that's the main issue or if it's multiple areas of the car. If there is no realistic chance of challenging for the titles (which looks to be the reality), then the focus should be on resolving the problems and not making similar mistakes in the 2023 car. I mean it could be true that the Mercedes has a lot of unlocked performance inaccessible due to the purposing, but it's hard to tell if that's just Mercedes saying that for PR or if they actually believe it.

[dialtone]

When it's as bad as this they might as well experiment with running the old spec car from the 1st Barcelona test with one car.

The only reason to do that would be to determine if it's the sidepod design that's the main issue or if it's multiple areas of the car. If there is no realistic chance of challenging for the titles (which looks to be the reality), then the focus should be on resolving the problems and not making similar mistakes in the 2023 car. I mean it could be true that the Mercedes has a lot of unlocked performance inaccessible due to the purposing, but it's hard to tell if that's just Mercedes saying that for PR or if they actually believe it.

Even if it's true, if it takes half the season to unlock it, other teams will have unlocked a lot more pace too.

[taperoo2k]

When it's as bad as this they might as well experiment with running the old spec car from the 1st Barcelona test with one car.

The only reason to do that would be to determine if it's the sidepod design that's the main issue or if it's multiple areas of the car. If there is no realistic chance of challenging for the titles (which looks to be the reality), then the focus should be on resolving the problems and not making similar mistakes in the 2023 car. I mean it could be true that the Mercedes has a lot of unlocked performance inaccessible due to the purposing, but it's hard to tell if that's just Mercedes saying that for PR or if they actually believe it.

Even if it's true, if it takes half the season to unlock it, other teams will have unlocked a lot more pace too.

The bigger issue for Mercedes is that they discover what went wrong, how to fix it and ensure the same mistakes don't bleed into the 2023 car.

[VacuousFlamboyant]

The old iteration would probably yield better results in the short term as it produces less downforce, but that's not what they are after. That's not to say they won't look into sidepod design. The lack of individual parts tells me they will rework the car concept yet again. Otherwise, not bringing a new rear wing or floor was a huge mistake. Even if they don't match the concept, the most sensible thing, probably, would be to run a compromised setup and fill them with pressure sensors.

[AR3-GP]

It’s highly likely that it’s all been considered already. They have been the dominant team for a reason. I guess you just can’t do anything until you’ve pinpointed the correlation discrepancy that they most clearly have

Ferrari have been dominant. RB have been dominant. Renault have been somewhat dominant. It doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes.

[dialtone]

The old iteration would probably yield better results in the short term as it produces less downforce, but that's not what they are after. That's not to say they won't look into sidepod design. The lack of individual parts tells me they will rework the car concept yet again. Otherwise, not bringing a new rear wing or floor was a huge mistake. Even if they don't match the concept, the most sensible thing, probably, would be to run a compromised setup and fill them with pressure sensors.

This is a bit of a myth at this point. Not only the F1-75 is bouncing more than the W13, at least that was the data in australia, but judging by the size of wings between Ferrari and Merc, knowing both are higher ride height, it's clear Ferrari needs less wing.

But even then... We don't actually know what the CFD models say, Merc attempted at generating more downforce and less drag, but we don't know they succeded. 2014 Ferrari also attempted better aero efficiency over engine packaging sacrifices, and they ended up with neither aero nor engine.

And the force of porpoising depends on a ton of factors, not just floor performance, softer suspension will have more bouncing for example.

[toraabe]

The only reason to do that would be to determine if it's the sidepod design that's the main issue or if it's multiple areas of the car. If there is no realistic chance of challenging for the titles (which looks to be the reality), then the focus should be on resolving the problems and not making similar mistakes in the 2023 car. I mean it could be true that the Mercedes has a lot of unlocked performance inaccessible due to the purposing, but it's hard to tell if that's just Mercedes saying that for PR or if they actually believe it.

Even if it's true, if it takes half the season to unlock it, other teams will have unlocked a lot more pace too.

The bigger issue for Mercedes is that they discover what went wrong, how to fix it and ensure the same mistakes don't bleed into the 2023 car.

If this continues they should do what ferrari did last year. Just abandoned it and put everything into next year's car. Then the PU.

[dialtone]

Even if it's true, if it takes half the season to unlock it, other teams will have unlocked a lot more pace too.

The bigger issue for Mercedes is that they discover what went wrong, how to fix it and ensure the same mistakes don't bleed into the 2023 car.

If this continues they should do what ferrari did last year. Just abandoned it and put everything into next year's car. Then the PU.

PU is frozen and next year the rules are the same. Develop the w13 and fix its issues calmly without pressure for results this year.


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[Remevs]

I heard from driver 61 that it could actually be a suspension problem and not aero, the has issues too but I think the main thing to fix is that suspension to catching the bouncing. I don't know if this avenue has been talked about here cuz Redbull have one hell of a suspension and they magically have zero porpoising.

[Big Tea]

There is so much focus on the proposing that everyone deems to be forgetting about their tyre problems.
Races like this week where there is a sprint in particular, if they do not get the tyres in the window, they struggle in qualifying and for the early laps and laps after pits, safety car etc.

Despite saying it is 99% of their problem, unless it is something connected and totally unexpected, they will still have problem

[chrisc90]

Wonder why they dont look at what the Barcelona 'full' side pods can do?

I mean they could run 1 car in practice with them on. Providing its just a engine cover / possible floor to swap over.....that takes very little time.

They could get quite a bit of realistic data without 'showing their card' too much like they would have in testing. Granted you would lose a session of FP but copying the setup off one car and putting it onto another wouldnt be hard.

I said nearly 2 weeks ago that taking a punt on the 'B' spec sidepod version could actually get some decent data. If they have made upgrades to suspension to possibly stop the bouncing or other aero tweaks, even running the side pods in a test session, or even split the cars (if thats allowed to be different across a team that vast) and see what happens.

Yet someone was kind enough to down vote the comment strangely enough.

From what they have, and where they havent got, there isnt much to lose really. if the pods are a simple 'bolt on' using existing fixings its a simple test....probably even doable during a FP session (not knowing how much work is involved with swapping in terms of components underneath.

Interesting to think of a sidepod reversion.

That backtrack may be something to consider. Unless, of course, preseason testing showed the current version to still be significantly better...

The old iteration would probably yield better results in the short term as it produces less downforce, but that's not what they are after. That's not to say they won't look into sidepod design. The lack of individual parts tells me they will rework the car concept yet again. Otherwise, not bringing a new rear wing or floor was a huge mistake. Even if they don't match the concept, the most sensible thing, probably, would be to run a compromised setup and fill them with pressure sensors.

[Vanja #66]

I heard from driver 61 that it could actually be a suspension problem and not aero, the has issues too but I think the main thing to fix is that suspension to catching the bouncing. I don't know if this avenue has been talked about here cuz Redbull have one hell of a suspension and they magically have zero porpoising.

After everything we've seen so far, especially wet running, the suspension seems to be the weakest link. Some of us have been saying this for a while. They've been hurt with regulations resulting in simplified suspension systems, they can't setup the car properly and this also results in poor aero performance on track.

[Spoutnik]