2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ringo]

I think even with george the car was not any faster. Having lookes on the replays he was lucky again to jump from p11 to p6 without doing anything. Other cars just got bowled out of the way. Then he got past magnussen and that was his race to the end.
Where Lewis failed for me was in the practice session he needed to set the car up for the sprint. And normally Lewis doesnt setup his car properly in the first practice session. So I wasnt suprised of his poor pace in qualifying.
The pace improved in the race but with a drs train from p14 he wasnt going anywhere.
Anyhow its just 4 races in. Some good races will come. Totto isnt ignoring George. I think George doesnt like to be praised anyway. But as we said many times, Lewis was promised a chance to get back his world title and its not working out currently. And in sure totto feels like he let lewis down for that.

I am not taking Nico seriously. He has to do anything go create drama and get attention. Currently Lewis struggling is a good story. Things will turnaround a d they will say George turned to a #2 and the car is the fastest.

[GrizzleBoy]

I think even with george the car was not any faster. Having lookes on the replays he was lucky again to jump from p11 to p6 without doing anything. Other cars just got bowled out of the way. Then he got past magnussen and that was his race to the end.
Where Lewis failed for me was in the practice session he needed to set the car up for the sprint. And normally Lewis doesnt setup his car properly in the first practice session. So I wasnt suprised of his poor pace in qualifying.
The pace improved in the race but with a drs train from p14 he wasnt going anywhere.
Anyhow its just 4 races in. Some good races will come. Totto isnt ignoring George. I think George doesnt like to be praised anyway. But as we said many times, Lewis was promised a chance to get back his world title and its not working out currently. And in sure totto feels like he let lewis down for that.

I am not taking Nico seriously. He has to do anything go create drama and get attention. Currently Lewis struggling is a good story. Things will turnaround a d they will say George turned to a #2 and the car is the fastest.

Neither fans nor media seemed to not comment too much on it (if at all), but the Mercs actually spent most of their time in FP1 sitting in the garage.

Which would have had substantial ramifications given it was the only session available to set the cars up before immediately going into Parc ferme.

Russel started doing some laps toward the end of the session but Lewis spent much of FP1 not actually doing laps.

He ended FP1 in 18th place, so basically at no point during the only period of time he had to set the car up, could/did he actually run with a car that had any pace in it.

Maybe this is the reason Toto apologised at the end of the race? Little to no actual setup running? I kind of cringed at it at the time, but could put some context to and explain the apology and "undriveable" comments?

[Starbuckle486]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but if they did I couldn't spot it for all the people screaming and flapping because they think the ship is sinking.

Does anyone else think that Merc have realised they're too far behind at this point to be in title contention and are holding back on upgrade until they have a lot more data and a proper understanding of the porpoising problem? The side effect of this being that they will, as a result of being lower down the table, then have more resource allowance in the second half of the season to work hard on the W14?

I think it shows they haven't found a a quick fix to improve the car enough to make any noticable difference. That could be because they are looking at the long term and soon will have to decide what concept to run with next year. And it makes sense that a car many hundreds of people have spent months at if not more at isn't easily upgradable.

Maybe they have another two months or so before deciding the concept for next year? In parallell with trying to understand the W13 I believe there are a couple of replicas of the F1-75 and the RB18 in the windtunnel at Mercedes. Knowing which concept has the most potential in the long run is key.

So yes, I believe they are holding back; partly because they are unable to find easy solutions, partly because they know that at this point the long term performance is more important.

[F1NAC]

Maybe they have another two months or so before deciding the concept for next year? In parallell with trying to understand the W13 I believe there are a couple of replicas of the F1-75 and the RB18 in the windtunnel at Mercedes. Knowing which concept has the most potential in the long run is key.

Highly doubt it. Maybe before the costcap. I think in this era it is more with understanding what you have and what you can, then to make "replicas". Because it's not like you can bolt RB sidepods on Mercedes on voila.

They can't parallel work with understanding the car, and making whole new car as you said as a replica of other teams.

[chrisc90]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but if they did I couldn't spot it for all the people screaming and flapping because they think the ship is sinking.

Does anyone else think that Merc have realised they're too far behind at this point to be in title contention and are holding back on upgrade until they have a lot more data and a proper understanding of the porpoising problem? The side effect of this being that they will, as a result of being lower down the table, then have more resource allowance in the second half of the season to work hard on the W14?

I think it shows they haven't found a a quick fix to improve the car enough to make any noticable difference. That could be because they are looking at the long term and soon will have to decide what concept to run with next year. And it makes sense that a car many hundreds of people have spent months at if not more at isn't easily upgradable.

Maybe they have another two months or so before deciding the concept for next year? In parallell with trying to understand the W13 I believe there are a couple of replicas of the F1-75 and the RB18 in the windtunnel at Mercedes. Knowing which concept has the most potential in the long run is key.

So yes, I believe they are holding back; partly because they are unable to find easy solutions, partly because they know that at this point the long term performance is more important.

Wouldn’t that be eating up on wind tunnel time out of the allocation doing runs on a competitors car?

[Spoutnik]

[Starbuckle486]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but if they did I couldn't spot it for all the people screaming and flapping because they think the ship is sinking.

Does anyone else think that Merc have realised they're too far behind at this point to be in title contention and are holding back on upgrade until they have a lot more data and a proper understanding of the porpoising problem? The side effect of this being that they will, as a result of being lower down the table, then have more resource allowance in the second half of the season to work hard on the W14?

I think it shows they haven't found a a quick fix to improve the car enough to make any noticable difference. That could be because they are looking at the long term and soon will have to decide what concept to run with next year. And it makes sense that a car many hundreds of people have spent months at if not more at isn't easily upgradable.

Maybe they have another two months or so before deciding the concept for next year? In parallell with trying to understand the W13 I believe there are a couple of replicas of the F1-75 and the RB18 in the windtunnel at Mercedes. Knowing which concept has the most potential in the long run is key.

So yes, I believe they are holding back; partly because they are unable to find easy solutions, partly because they know that at this point the long term performance is more important.

Wouldn’t that be eating up on wind tunnel time out of the allocation doing runs on a competitors car?

Yes, maybe they only do CFD analysis but the same thing applies there. It will be extremely interesting how it will play out. Maybe they have already decided to change concept for next year, maybe they think they can catch Red Bull and Ferrari with their current concept.

[Big Tea]

The main reason Hamilton was so far behind was his starting position (which was his own fault). It was not just him, but others including Danny Ric who could not break out of the DRS train (or pre DRS train)
This is similar to when we see a car normally a tail-ender starting higher up the field and getting a good run until they have to stop for tyres, and they are again back in the train.

DRS is a race spoiler if you are not in the top 5. The cars need to be designed to race, not to get into DRS position

[organic]

The main reason Hamilton was so far behind was his starting position (which was his own fault). It was not just him, but others including Danny Ric who could not break out of the DRS train (or pre DRS train)
This is similar to when we see a car normally a tail-ender starting higher up the field and getting a good run until they have to stop for tyres, and they are again back in the train.

DRS is a race spoiler if you are not in the top 5. The cars need to be designed to race, not to get into DRS position

Ric had damage to be fair

[Big Tea]

The main reason Hamilton was so far behind was his starting position (which was his own fault). It was not just him, but others including Danny Ric who could not break out of the DRS train (or pre DRS train)
This is similar to when we see a car normally a tail-ender starting higher up the field and getting a good run until they have to stop for tyres, and they are again back in the train.

DRS is a race spoiler if you are not in the top 5. The cars need to be designed to race, not to get into DRS position

Ric had damage to be fair

Agreed, but he still should have been able to pass the Williams and probably the Haas. Not 'blaming' any driver its just the way it is

[PlatinumZealot]

Russell driving like an absolute animal. Race after race getting better and better.

Russell is all positive and hungrier!

Indeed, Russell is indeed an ace as many expected (myself included) and should have been promoted to Mercedes in 2020 or 2021. It was a total misstep to not arrange such a deal (Williams contract buyout and replace out-of-contract Bottas) and get the best possible drivers ASAP IMO.

Bottas has struggled to amass the number of wins in his career, that Button or Rosberg amassed in one season. Why Mercedes persist with Bottas remains a mystery when the likes of Ricciardo, Alonso were available for 2019 and now Russell too...

You always have to get the best two drivers you can find. Always.

Solid rear gunner for Lewis. I see no reason to change [Bottas] than to bring more exitement to the team if that is what Toto wants and I doubt it.

Russell absolutely should have had the opportunity to drive the Mercedes and go for the 2021 & 2021 WDCs.

As PlatinumZealot said Russell is a positive and hungry driver, who therefore would mostly likely have put together an excellent WDC challenge.

Leclerc and Gasly got the promotions ASAP, it is ridiculous that Russell did not. Was it ever truly likely that Russell would be as disastrous as Gasly at Red Bull? Not really, no IMO. Baffling, and probably has cost Russell so many potential wins during the 2020 & 2021 seasons as well as costing Mercedes themselves many WCC points.

Had Hamilton been severely beaten in pure pace, it would be one thing. But so far that’s nowhere near the case.

Exactly, they are quite even. The argument against promoting Russell early was that Russell would be way off the pace like Gasly compared to Verstappen, which just seems totally unfounded IMO. It is clear that Russell should have been promoted earlier and that Russell is most likely an improvement compared to Bottas - every race team should always strive to hire the two fastest drivers available!

Wait wait wait. Remebmer the state of the W13 on the back of the Abu Dhabi situation has dampened Lewis' hunger. Things have changed. Don't we see Bottas still performing very well in the Alfa. Probably better than Lewis is doing. George is Okay. Qualifying well, which is what Bottas used to do, and he's hanging in there in the races. And As I said his hunger from merely just stepping up to Mercedes which is miles ahead of Williams, makes him immune to the fall-out of Abu dhabi.

A quick, hungry young driver of course is the way to go in these situations.

[silver]

Wait wait wait. Remebmer the state of the W13 on the back of the Abu Dhabi situation has dampened Lewis' hunger. Things have changed. Don't we see Bottas still performing very well in the Alfa. Probably better than Lewis is doing. George is Okay. Qualifying well, which is what Bottas used to do, and he's hanging in there in the races. And As I said his hunger from merely just stepping up to Mercedes which is miles ahead of Williams, makes him immune to the fall-out of Abu dhabi.

A quick, hungry young driver of course is the way to go in these situations.

IMO continuing to use Abu Dhabi as an excuse for Hamilton's lack of performances is really really poor. If you ask Hamilton himself, I am sure he will scoff it off which otherwise means, he is a weak minded athlete who cannot move past a tragedy and a poor team person who isn't focusing on his job. I don't think he is giving anything less than 100%, but probably the car's performance is elsewhere in terms of setup and driving and Russell is getting there better than Hamilton at this point.

[wogx]

[AR3-GP]

^^ Gasly didn't even appear to know Lewis was slightly alongside him judging the way he moved over in the brake zone. That would have been a nasty one if Lewis sent it along the outside.

[cheeRS]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-struggle

Yeah, you must be part of the twitter-debate-lover crowd. Hint: Headlines are meant to get clicks, not tell the [whole] truth.

“ This is the situation that we are faced with and we are obviously not fighting for the Championship but we are fighting to understand this car and improve and progress through the year. That is all we can hope for right now."

Did Lewis say he’s abandoning the season or that it’s not possible to fight for the championships this year? Or are you just assuming what you need to in order to create imaginary contradictions?

I’m half convinced you’re just trolling. No one can be this dumb.

I had to report this post as the mode of debate has gone so badly down, calling every other person dumb and troll.

It seemed to me (and others) that two users, not “every other person” are acting like trolls, IE, posting nonsensical ideas in the Merc team thread. It happens a lot now in other threads.

As far as calling someone dumb, I didn’t mean it as an insult, I genuinely meant it as a description of what kind of ‘reasoning’ was being used. If that offends you or really, anyone else on the internet… this isn’t the place for you. Still, I apologize for hurting you.

I gave plenty of reasons why I don’t think Mercedes’ season is over after 1/5 of the season, but if you need to be a tattle tail because I used a Rated-G word, more power to you.

Anyway, back to the topics at hand.