Mercedes W13

[clownfish]

I think there are fundamental issues with the car indeed. In my opinion, its simply a totally wrong concept for the new regulary.

Perhaps, but these articles and tweets have disappeared. Presumably a misquote?

edit - okay disregard that it's back online now - weird!

[KeiKo403]

I think there are fundamental issues with the car indeed. In my opinion, its simply a totally wrong concept for the new regulary.

Perhaps, but these articles and tweets have disappeared. Presumably a misquote?

edit - okay disregard that it's back online now - weird!

I know it’s far too soon for this kind of talk but…
What would cutting your losses look like on track? In a cost cap and wind tunnel/cfd limited era I’d imagine it would be see out the season with the current car and Switch focus to a 2023 car?

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

[scheffers]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

A combination of both.

For example, If you read between the lines in articles about Red Bull is that they found a sweet spot where several underfloor-airflows working together and a smart (custard-like?) suspension is doing the magic for them.

[KeiKo403]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

A combination of both.

For example, If you read between the lines in articles about Red Bull is that they found a sweet spot where several underfloor-airflows working together and a smart (custard-like?) suspension is doing the magic for them.

Sorry for asking but you do know the “custard-like” suspension was an April Fools joke don’t you?

[scheffers]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

A combination of both.

For example, If you read between the lines in articles about Red Bull is that they found a sweet spot where several underfloor-airflows working together and a smart (custard-like?) suspension is doing the magic for them.

Sorry for asking but you do know the “custard-like” suspension was an April Fools joke don’t you?

Ugh, I'm stupid.

[scheffers]

A combination of both.

For example, If you read between the lines in articles about Red Bull is that they found a sweet spot where several underfloor-airflows working together and a smart (custard-like?) suspension is doing the magic for them.

Sorry for asking but you do know the “custard-like” suspension was an April Fools joke don’t you?

Ugh, I'm stupid.

But still, it has to be aero working together with suspension, god knows how they do it.

[AA_2019]

But still, it has to be aero working together with suspension, god knows how they do it.
[/quote]

Merc are spending their time to try to model purpoising which is a very different approach to what RB have done, and yet RB have the least problems with it.

According to Newey, porpoising is a "very well known problem" that had the possibility of rearing its head in 2022. "With these regs you could see that was a possibility but whether they would and how you model that, was the difficulty,"

...As to how Newey and his engineers managed to find a solution so quickly, the designer understandably doesn't want to go into detail, but he gives a very small hint: he points out that there is more than one airflow under the floor and that it is important to make them work together...

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/109732/n ... oblem.html

[matteosc]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

Based on Newey's interview, it looks like is more a matter of how the downforce is produced at different speeds; a sort of aero-mapping, if I am not using the term wrong. Red Bull was able to design a floor (and a whole car) which reduces porpoising by not increasing excessively the downforce when the floor lowers. I would assume that other teams, Mercedes in particular, failed to do this.

[Magicsenna_41]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

Based on Newey's interview, it looks like is more a matter of how the downforce is produced at different speeds; a sort of aero-mapping, if I am not using the term wrong. Red Bull was able to design a floor (and a whole car) which reduces porpoising by not increasing excessively the downforce when the floor lowers. I would assume that other teams, Mercedes in particular, failed to do this.

why should Newey explain opponents whats going on and give some hints? Obviously he is not telling the whole truth...

[AriaanGert]

in the interview on the race:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/newey-in ... etirement/
he says he did the suspension and some bits and pieces.

I am in the group that thinks the magic is in the suspension and he is sending the rest in the wrong direction.

[matteosc]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

Based on Newey's interview, it looks like is more a matter of how the downforce is produced at different speeds; a sort of aero-mapping, if I am not using the term wrong. Red Bull was able to design a floor (and a whole car) which reduces porpoising by not increasing excessively the downforce when the floor lowers. I would assume that other teams, Mercedes in particular, failed to do this.

why should Newey explain opponents whats going on and give some hints? Obviously he is not telling the whole truth...

He did not explain them how to fix it...

[AR3-GP]

A combination of both.

For example, If you read between the lines in articles about Red Bull is that they found a sweet spot where several underfloor-airflows working together and a smart (custard-like?) suspension is doing the magic for them.

Sorry for asking but you do know the “custard-like” suspension was an April Fools joke don’t you?

Ugh, I'm stupid.

Charles, is that you?

[Sevach]

Question though, with the amount this car bounces, is it that the cars concept is actually creating way more downforce then we’re used to seeing and they need more control and better suspension or is the aero design just flawed?

Based on Newey's interview, it looks like is more a matter of how the downforce is produced at different speeds; a sort of aero-mapping, if I am not using the term wrong. Red Bull was able to design a floor (and a whole car) which reduces porpoising by not increasing excessively the downforce when the floor lowers. I would assume that other teams, Mercedes in particular, failed to do this.

I believe it's a possibility, under the last set of regs teams would aim for stalling after certain speeds, increasing straight line speed.
Recently we saw that RB floor doesn't "kick" it has a smooth curve(Ferrari has 1 kick,Mercedes 2), it's inlet is also not as tall and and less sharp, more rounded than others.
Plus the "skates".

It does feel like they focussed on real world usable downforce rather than perfect windtunnel conditions.

Reminds me of what Newey once said about the 94 Williams, very hard to drive early in the season because it was too extreme, designed to work on perfect conditions (with the active suspension), but with a suspension that "moved naturally" the balance would be thrown out of whack when the front dives and other things.

[AA_2019]

Reminds me of what Newey once said about the 94 Williams, very hard to drive early in the season because it was too extreme, designed to work on perfect conditions (with the active suspension), but with a suspension that "moved naturally" the balance would be thrown out of whack when the front dives and other things.
[/quote]

This is what you gain from experience. Do Merc have aero guys with more than 30 years experience or are they all post 2000 graduates with A** grades coming out of their ears?

Ferrari put the RB side cut outs on the floor at the post race test to reduce the bouncing and will be using at the next race. Wonder if we'll see Merc do the same.

[AMG.Tzan]

Is this the new low downforce rear wing??