2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Jdn1327]

Could they run both concepts over a race weekend, have one car as the original larger sidepods and the 2nd the newer one and play all set ups on both.?

Well apparently it's something they are not ruling out completely. Maybe they've seen the light in that the 2 fastest cars on the grid have the largest side pods (not to say that's the solution)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... -spec-w13/

[GrizzleBoy]

At some point we'll probably need to start wondering whether much of what we hear is just PR to slowly let people settle into the idea that "it ain't happening ".

At one point, "new upgrades expected for X race!!!" will start to fall on deaf ears and the expectations of anything good in 2022 and pressure will lessen for the team and drivers.

I'd say we're well into that journey already now.

The car can't use the tyres properly despite seemingly having enough downforce suggesting something isnt quite right mechanically and it can't use the downforce that it does produce properly or efficiently leading to extreme bouncing.

Mercedes essentially already made an entire v2.0 floor and v2.0 sidepods that function in completely different concept to the previous iteration after it was revealed the car basically didn't work as they thought since the first filming track day after the car launched.

I haven't thought about it like that. Most people seem to believe the floor is a large part of their issues and it needs fixing, but the W13 already had a floor overhaul this year. How much more could they do with the cost cap?

Merc already 2.0'd large pars of the car this year since launch and its possible there isn't really much more they can actually do now.

[cplchanb]

At some point we'll probably need to start wondering whether much of what we hear is just PR to slowly let people settle into the idea that "it ain't happening ".

At one point, "new upgrades expected for X race!!!" will start to fall on deaf ears and the expectations of anything good in 2022 and pressure will lessen for the team and drivers.

I'd say we're well into that journey already now.

The car can't use the tyres properly despite seemingly having enough downforce suggesting something isnt quite right mechanically and it can't use the downforce that it does produce properly or efficiently leading to extreme bouncing.

Mercedes essentially already made an entire v2.0 floor and v2.0 sidepods that function in completely different concept to the previous iteration after it was revealed the car basically didn't work as they thought since the first filming track day after the car launched.

I haven't thought about it like that. Most people seem to believe the floor is a large part of their issues and it needs fixing, but the W13 already had a floor overhaul this year. How much more could they do with the cost cap?

Merc already 2.0'd large pars of the car this year since launch and its possible there isn't really much more they can actually do now.

Do you honestly think they redid their car in 2 weeks after the Barcelona test??? These concepts were researched months in advance. Hell it probably took them longer just to produce the parts.

[GrizzleBoy]

At some point we'll probably need to start wondering whether much of what we hear is just PR to slowly let people settle into the idea that "it ain't happening ".

At one point, "new upgrades expected for X race!!!" will start to fall on deaf ears and the expectations of anything good in 2022 and pressure will lessen for the team and drivers.

I'd say we're well into that journey already now.

The car can't use the tyres properly despite seemingly having enough downforce suggesting something isnt quite right mechanically and it can't use the downforce that it does produce properly or efficiently leading to extreme bouncing.

Mercedes essentially already made an entire v2.0 floor and v2.0 sidepods that function in completely different concept to the previous iteration after it was revealed the car basically didn't work as they thought since the first filming track day after the car launched.

I haven't thought about it like that. Most people seem to believe the floor is a large part of their issues and it needs fixing, but the W13 already had a floor overhaul this year. How much more could they do with the cost cap?

Merc already 2.0'd large pars of the car this year since launch and its possible there isn't really much more they can actually do now.

Do you honestly think they redid their car in 2 weeks after the Barcelona test??? These concepts were researched months in advance. Hell it probably took them longer just to produce the parts.

It's less to do with time and more to do with money.

They researched, factory tested, built and track tested basically two different floor and sidepod concepts already this year and that surely wasn't free to do.

If researching, wind testing, building, track testing and finally race testing parts that don't work or make minimal difference wasn't an issue then nobody would be scared of the cost cap, but they definitely are.

[SiLo]

Getting tired of Mercedes moaning. If the floor is the problem then just replace it. Does not make sense why they don't tackle
the problem head on but they just keep on analyzing data. Seems rather strange...

lol. Pretty sure that's the exact problem they're trying to tackle. And it's a bit more difficult than you make it seem.

Stop moaning and change the floor by:

- removing the kick points to reduce extremeness
- reshape with the tunnel like contours as Red Bull which ensures there is always some airflow even if the car bottoms
- add cut outs on the edge as per Red Bull
- add the Red Bull Skates

Or keeping believing in a silver bullet that will magically make the car quicker than ever other car on the grid.

To summarise:

Build the RB18.

Honestly, this is a really dumb take. You cannot just lift parts from another car and have it work, it's only in very rare instances that it does.

[SuperCNJ]

Mercedes were hopeful of their pace but I felt they should have started Lewis on hards. Street track, mid field, third best car. Start on hards.

That's what I was thinking but they were saying that starting on the dirty side of the track was a big disadvantage and with the hards taking much longer to get into the window Lewis probably would have lost more places at the start.

[214270]

Mercedes were hopeful of their pace but I felt they should have started Lewis on hards. Street track, mid field, third best car. Start on hards.

That's what I was thinking but they were saying that starting on the dirty side of the track was a big disadvantage and with the hards taking much longer to get into the window Lewis probably would have lost more places at the start.

The payoff would be possibly taking adv of the safety car though, but if you ask me 5 & 6th is the realistic race assignment given the car’s performance; and they achieved it. Regardless of strategy that seemed like their destiny whichever way it played out.

It doesn’t really matter in the end who was ahead, they need to find performance fast.

[mstar]

Make no mistake Lewis was really on it in the race, he seemed to clearly be the 5th fastest driver with maybe bottas/russell. We need to put this in perspective Russell lucked his way with the SC, I hope lewis doesnt get to down beat about his as he has been losing out on SC a lot this season. On board the cars look awful to drive, i see no improvement in that respect. I am quite sure if this car never gets close to on pace and they cannot figure this out, there needs to be a reshuffle in the design team as they got this so so wrong, and cannot figure out this which give no confidence for next year.

[Redragon]

what are the chances of seeing bulkier sidepods from Bacelona? 60% 70% 80%? And start to redisign towards 2023?

This year, zero chance, the mini-pods are not the cause of the problem with porpoising. The only reason that they are likely to modify the side-pods is if the cooling has to be re-packaged to fix the issue (that’s if they have to change the floor substantially).

Well it looks they are not ruling out to bring the wider sidepods as I was guessing
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-improved

[PlatinumZealot]

George seems like another full package driver IMO. Fairly good overtaker, good in the wet, fast in Q and I like his race pace so far. He's not flashy though, but nothing wrong with not being flashy. I think Jenson said it right, George's driving style is somewhere in between himself (Jenson) and Lewis Hamilton.

[Owen.C93]

what are the chances of seeing bulkier sidepods from Bacelona? 60% 70% 80%? And start to redisign towards 2023?

This year, zero chance, the mini-pods are not the cause of the problem with porpoising. The only reason that they are likely to modify the side-pods is if the cooling has to be re-packaged to fix the issue (that’s if they have to change the floor substantially).

Well it looks they are not ruling out to bring the wider sidepods as I was guessing
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-improved

They've repeatedly said they are slower. So it's an almost certainty they won't revert.

There issue is porpoising which the sidepods won't effect.

[Redragon]

This year, zero chance, the mini-pods are not the cause of the problem with porpoising. The only reason that they are likely to modify the side-pods is if the cooling has to be re-packaged to fix the issue (that’s if they have to change the floor substantially).

Well it looks they are not ruling out to bring the wider sidepods as I was guessing
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-improved

They've repeatedly said they are slower. So it's an almost certainty they won't revert.

There issue is porpoising which the sidepods won't effect.

It is not me guessing, it is Wolff telling himself that they are considering it. So there is a percentage of possibility to see them to reverese the concept and focus towards next year. It is logical if this concept don't move forward with updates and improve sooner than later.

[Stu]

what are the chances of seeing bulkier sidepods from Bacelona? 60% 70% 80%? And start to redisign towards 2023?

This year, zero chance, the mini-pods are not the cause of the problem with porpoising. The only reason that they are likely to modify the side-pods is if the cooling has to be re-packaged to fix the issue (that’s if they have to change the floor substantially).

Well it looks they are not ruling out to bring the wider sidepods as I was guessing
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-improved

Yeah, but Toto said it, so best taken with a pinch of salt….

[AA_2019]

lol. Pretty sure that's the exact problem they're trying to tackle. And it's a bit more difficult than you make it seem.

Stop moaning and change the floor by:

- removing the kick points to reduce extremeness
- reshape with the tunnel like contours as Red Bull which ensures there is always some airflow even if the car bottoms
- add cut outs on the edge as per Red Bull
- add the Red Bull Skates

Or keeping believing in a silver bullet that will magically make the car quicker than ever other car on the grid.

To summarise:

Build the RB18.

You cannot just lift parts from another car and have it work, it's only in very rare instances that it does.

Don't be a fool, you take on board the successful concepts of others and blend it into yours.

The 4 points mentioned are transferable to any car as they are generic concepts. Obviously you need to make it work in conjunction with the rest of the car.

RB copied many subtle aspects of the Merc rear end (including suspension aspects) for the start of last year and it helped to give them the fastest car in 2021.

I remember many fools in 2009 saying the same thing as you when McLaren-Mercedes had a flawed car at the back of the grid. Back then I was saying they should copy what works which was the outwashing Brawn concept. The fools like you said you can't copy, you need to understand data, modelling, reasons for this and that [blah blah blah]... 9 races later Mclaren-Mercedes brought out the Brawn style outwashing concept and had a race winning car from day 1 of the revised B-spec car.

Merc need to take the same approach, look at what works and just do it.

[barten]

Lovely how factual and kind this discussion has gotten.