Tires are undamped springs.Rodak wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 02:58Didn't Pirelli increase the rear tire pressure for this race? IIRC it was bumped to 22 psi; seems like that would have an effect on suspension bounce, especially as we have reduced sidewall height with the 18" tires. Maybe the FIA could get Pirelli to make better tires so they could run 18 psi±. That would soften the suspension and help dampen bouncing.
Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.F1doc wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 18:47You can see the ride height in many of the photos here:
https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... gp-weekend
I suspect the bouncing is more to do with the aero concept as AM had significant porpoising before the Barcelona changes. I don't think their suspension has changed.
I think aero surfaces are a red herring."The ride issues are unlikely to be due to the shape of the bodywork of the car, as some of it is definitely mechanical.
"If you have a car that's generating downforce, closer to the road, so its peak is lower, then you've got less room to play with. And you have to inherently run it stiffer.
"There's a lot of areas that we're looking at. So I think it's probably simplifying it to say: do we suddenly make a car that looks radically different, and head off on a different direction?
Probably why they're unable to find a solution?zibby43 wrote:Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.
Do they understand the W13 enough to not make the same mistakes again?saviour stivala wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 08:22For Mercedes to solve their problems they need to produce/introduce their W14 as fast as they can.
It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.
Based on how the season has unfolded thus far, I highly doubt Shovlin and his design team can truly pinpoint the source of said porpoising. So I wouldn’t rule out sidepods/aero surfaces.zibby43 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 06:35Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.F1doc wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 18:47You can see the ride height in many of the photos here:
https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... gp-weekend
I suspect the bouncing is more to do with the aero concept as AM had significant porpoising before the Barcelona changes. I don't think their suspension has changed.
I think aero surfaces are a red herring."The ride issues are unlikely to be due to the shape of the bodywork of the car, as some of it is definitely mechanical.
"If you have a car that's generating downforce, closer to the road, so its peak is lower, then you've got less room to play with. And you have to inherently run it stiffer.
"There's a lot of areas that we're looking at. So I think it's probably simplifying it to say: do we suddenly make a car that looks radically different, and head off on a different direction?
I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?mzivtins wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 10:38It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.
I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance
Big Tea wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 13:29I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?mzivtins wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 10:38It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.
I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance
Surely the bump stop should finalise before the plank hits the road? No matter how small a clearance 'stop' is 'stop'
Correct, and that's my point. The bouncing certainly looks undamped and the higher the pressure the stiffer the spring..... I'm suggesting the change in sidewall height and the higher pressure is contributing to the bouncing. The tire characteristics are certainly a part of the suspension design.AR3-GP wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 03:47Tires are undamped springs.Rodak wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 02:58Didn't Pirelli increase the rear tire pressure for this race? IIRC it was bumped to 22 psi; seems like that would have an effect on suspension bounce, especially as we have reduced sidewall height with the 18" tires. Maybe the FIA could get Pirelli to make better tires so they could run 18 psi±. That would soften the suspension and help dampen bouncing.
Bump and roll are still sprung/damped separately in the current formula aren't they?Big Tea wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 13:29I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?mzivtins wrote: ↑15 Jun 2022, 10:38It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.
I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance
Surely the bump stop should finalise before the plank hits the road? No matter how small a clearance 'stop' is 'stop'