Mercedes W13

[Rodak]

Didn't Pirelli increase the rear tire pressure for this race? IIRC it was bumped to 22 psi; seems like that would have an effect on suspension bounce, especially as we have reduced sidewall height with the 18" tires. Maybe the FIA could get Pirelli to make better tires so they could run 18 psi±. That would soften the suspension and help dampen bouncing.

[AR3-GP]

Didn't Pirelli increase the rear tire pressure for this race? IIRC it was bumped to 22 psi; seems like that would have an effect on suspension bounce, especially as we have reduced sidewall height with the 18" tires. Maybe the FIA could get Pirelli to make better tires so they could run 18 psi±. That would soften the suspension and help dampen bouncing.

Tires are undamped springs.

[zibby43]

Aston Martin are using the W13 rear suspension with the RB bodykit ( ) and they did not appear to suffer from porpoising in Baku.

So is it the suspension or the aero?

Impossible to tell if the cars are being run differently. The Merc is now slammed to the ground. Where's the AM ride height?

You can see the ride height in many of the photos here:

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... gp-weekend

I suspect the bouncing is more to do with the aero concept as AM had significant porpoising before the Barcelona changes. I don't think their suspension has changed.

Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.

"The ride issues are unlikely to be due to the shape of the bodywork of the car, as some of it is definitely mechanical.

"If you have a car that's generating downforce, closer to the road, so its peak is lower, then you've got less room to play with. And you have to inherently run it stiffer.

"There's a lot of areas that we're looking at. So I think it's probably simplifying it to say: do we suddenly make a car that looks radically different, and head off on a different direction?

I think aero surfaces are a red herring.

[lh13]

Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.

Probably why they're unable to find a solution?

[The_Engineer]

For Mercedes to solve their problems they need to produce/introduce their W14 as fast as they can.

Do they understand the W13 enough to not make the same mistakes again?

[mzivtins]

Why would they run the car on the bumpstops?

Is that the solution they trialed in Barcelona?

It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.

I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance

[hkbruin]

Maybe they should just revert back to the original A car they debuted when pre-season started in Barcelona… when their fancy side pods were still of the conventional design like the other teams.

[mkay]

Impossible to tell if the cars are being run differently. The Merc is now slammed to the ground. Where's the AM ride height?

You can see the ride height in many of the photos here:

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... gp-weekend

I suspect the bouncing is more to do with the aero concept as AM had significant porpoising before the Barcelona changes. I don't think their suspension has changed.

Andrew Shovlin seems to disagree with the notion that the bodywork has anything to do with the porpoising.

"The ride issues are unlikely to be due to the shape of the bodywork of the car, as some of it is definitely mechanical.

"If you have a car that's generating downforce, closer to the road, so its peak is lower, then you've got less room to play with. And you have to inherently run it stiffer.

"There's a lot of areas that we're looking at. So I think it's probably simplifying it to say: do we suddenly make a car that looks radically different, and head off on a different direction?

I think aero surfaces are a red herring.

Based on how the season has unfolded thus far, I highly doubt Shovlin and his design team can truly pinpoint the source of said porpoising. So I wouldn’t rule out sidepods/aero surfaces.

[SiLo]

I think it's wrong to say its not aero surfaces, and also admit that your aero platform has to be run lower which gives you a smaller operating window to combat porpoising. They go hand in hand surely?

[chrisc90]

Honestly shocked they haven’t bolted the side pods back on yet, given it should be relatively easy in free practice to see what’s going on.

With the new rear suspension that was meant to be trialled at Baku, it could work.

I know there was the photos of the lightened side pods showing the inner current configuration.

Given Aston Martin copying red bull and their car being a lot better than before, I believe side pods and how they have airflow over the rear wing/beam wing is also critical

[Big Tea]

Why would they run the car on the bumpstops?

Is that the solution they trialed in Barcelona?

It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.

I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance

I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?
Surely the bump stop should finalise before the plank hits the road? No matter how small a clearance 'stop' is 'stop'

[chrisc90]

Why would they run the car on the bumpstops?

Is that the solution they trialed in Barcelona?

It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.

I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance

I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?
Surely the bump stop should finalise before the plank hits the road? No matter how small a clearance 'stop' is 'stop'

Exactly. Can’t see how it’s possible really, unless your compressing the bump stop or have sidewall flex.

Just raise the car up and sit it on the bump stops so it doesn’t smash into the floor. I do think there’s a bit of gamesmanship going on here as a lot of comments don’t add up

[Rodak]

Didn't Pirelli increase the rear tire pressure for this race? IIRC it was bumped to 22 psi; seems like that would have an effect on suspension bounce, especially as we have reduced sidewall height with the 18" tires. Maybe the FIA could get Pirelli to make better tires so they could run 18 psi±. That would soften the suspension and help dampen bouncing.

Tires are undamped springs.

Correct, and that's my point. The bouncing certainly looks undamped and the higher the pressure the stiffer the spring..... I'm suggesting the change in sidewall height and the higher pressure is contributing to the bouncing. The tire characteristics are certainly a part of the suspension design.

[AMG.Tzan]

Can't really imagine how bad this car will be around Singapore which is the worst in terms of surface...

[clownfish]

Why would they run the car on the bumpstops?

Is that the solution they trialed in Barcelona?

It's normal to do this, a bump stop is still a spring, riding on the bump stops when the car is put into pitch or roll allows for more control as it limits how much the car can pitch and roll.

I'm taking this from GT3, GTE and LMP cars, I don't know about F1, but I think its logical to assume any car that is pitch and roll sensitive tends to run on bump stops to give maximum performance

I have to wonder though, if it is on the bump stops, how come it is still hitting the track on straight level sections?
Surely the bump stop should finalise before the plank hits the road? No matter how small a clearance 'stop' is 'stop'

Bump and roll are still sprung/damped separately in the current formula aren't they?