2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

In an effort to go back to discussing technical aspects on this forum… Below you will find a chart showing the percentage of time under full throttle by the different teams during Qualifyiing in France, from the chart we can infer who has more traction coming out of the corners, since the sooner you get on the throttle the loner you would be under WOT.

Even though is clear that McLaren still suffers from drag compared to the competition, it isn’t the only factor affecting their top speed and lack of pace… Traction out of the corners seem to be an important component and something that the team is probably trying to address… On the other hand, we could also assume that the car has very good cornering speed, since it would be in the off-throttle sections were it makes the most amount of time compared to the likes of Alpine for example (who Lando outqualified) since not only was Alonso more time under WOT, but also with higher top speed in the speed traps (with the exception of Intermediate 2)

Hopefully this is a good sign for Hungary, where the time of throttle is larger than in France

https://i.imgur.com/QdzgQMx.jpg

Via: @F1DataAnalysis

Thanks for the chart- really interesting. I do think it's hard to infer this to be a pure indicator of traction though. Other factors such as lower engine power or a high downforce/high drag would mean a car spends longer on the straights and so would have a higher proportion of time at full throttle. Also braking performance would have an (albeit small) effect as being able to brake later would effectively increase the time on full throttle.

The chart came from Qualifying and the best lap for of the fastest driver of each time… Engine modes should be the highest each manufacturer can provide, there is no lift and coast, tires are at their “optimum”… Even though braking performance could make an impact, from a percentage of the lap time perspective, the difference should be pretty small in terms of the time over the whole lap (from a WOT perspective, not lap time) you are probably looking at low tenths of a second difference in regards to when you go from WOT to braking in between the car with the shortest and longest brake distance.

[SmallSoldier]

Another interesting bit of data to analyze… Most consider the MCL36 as a very draggy car due to it’s concept… Nevertheless, Aston Martin has the same concept as Red Bull and has the same top speed as McLaren… Maybe more involved than what meets the eye.

In addition, the difference doesn’t seem to be as massive as originally thought (when not comparing it with Red Bull of course, which has an unbelievable advantage in Top Speed compared to the rest of the field)

[mwillems]

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

<---- if i can kindly request to Please try not to reply to me if you don't know and just guessing and speculating in the future please.

That was my point to you, just in a much more polite way. Stop saying what the financial repercussions are of finishing in a particular spot if you don't know because you clearly don't.

I literally googled and pasted the best link i could find which you replied to me about which said it was 3 million pounds difference between 4th and 5th.
Compare that to pure speculation you pasted below with no links or proof anywhere to be seen

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

I will re request kindly Please try not to reply to me if you don't know and just guessing and speculating in the future please.

You're missing the point, nor am I sure you can get it. If you are going to consider the finances of finishing positions, consider more than just prize money, such as sponsor bonus' which will certainly exist, even if we don't know how much for, or the fact that finishing 4th one year and 5th the next will affect your rates the next time a contract expires.

[Ben1980]

Another interesting bit of data to analyze… Most consider the MCL36 as a very draggy car due to it’s concept… Nevertheless, Aston Martin has the same concept as Red Bull and has the same top speed as McLaren… Maybe more involved than what meets the eye.

In addition, the difference doesn’t seem to be as massive as originally thought (when not comparing it with Red Bull of course, which has an unbelievable advantage in Top Speed compared to the rest of the field)

https://i.imgur.com/4sCSmx8.jpg

How have Red Bull managed it? Looks such an outlier.

[the EDGE]

Another interesting bit of data to analyze… Most consider the MCL36 as a very draggy car due to it’s concept… Nevertheless, Aston Martin has the same concept as Red Bull and has the same top speed as McLaren… Maybe more involved than what meets the eye.

In addition, the difference doesn’t seem to be as massive as originally thought (when not comparing it with Red Bull of course, which has an unbelievable advantage in Top Speed compared to the rest of the field)

https://i.imgur.com/4sCSmx8.jpg

How have Red Bull managed it? Looks such an outlier.

The RB is more efficient

Their floor generates more clean DF from better suction, so they can reduce dirty DF by running a small rear wing for less drag

The devil is in the detail

[mwillems]

Another interesting bit of data to analyze… Most consider the MCL36 as a very draggy car due to it’s concept… Nevertheless, Aston Martin has the same concept as Red Bull and has the same top speed as McLaren… Maybe more involved than what meets the eye.

In addition, the difference doesn’t seem to be as massive as originally thought (when not comparing it with Red Bull of course, which has an unbelievable advantage in Top Speed compared to the rest of the field)

https://i.imgur.com/4sCSmx8.jpg

How have Red Bull managed it? Looks such an outlier.

The RB is more efficient

Their floor generates more clean DF from better suction, so they can reduce dirty DF by running a small rear wing for less drag

The devil is in the detail

There was some analysis of their floor in which it was recognised that the tunnels were shaped I'm such a way as that even the air pressure in various parts of the tunnels had been managed to create a highly efficient and clean flow of air before becoming outwash.

Edit: It was a comparison between Mclaren and Red Bull and I remember being a bit sad for the level of detail applied to the RB in all areas.

[Spoutnik]

[Mclarensenna]

That was my point to you, just in a much more polite way. Stop saying what the financial repercussions are of finishing in a particular spot if you don't know because you clearly don't.

I literally googled and pasted the best link i could find which you replied to me about which said it was 3 million pounds difference between 4th and 5th.
Compare that to pure speculation you pasted below with no links or proof anywhere to be seen

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

I will re request kindly Please try not to reply to me if you don't know and just guessing and speculating in the future please.

You're missing the point, nor am I sure you can get it. If you are going to consider the finances of finishing positions, consider more than just prize money, such as sponsor bonus' which will certainly exist, even if we don't know how much for, or the fact that finishing 4th one year and 5th the next will affect your rates the next time a contract expires.

I made a point in 1 of my posts that the difference between 4th and 5th is only 3 million pounds according to this source i found in google below and not the end of the world and that the situation has a "clear positive" due to the extra wind and cfd time it affords. I said the sacrifice is worth it. My point was very clear!
https://www.totalsportal.com/f1/formula ... ize-money/


Your point if i got it correctly was that you clearly do not agree 3 million pounds is worth it and do not agree or care or even mention the extra wind tunnel and CFD time it affords which i stated is absolutely imperative after we saw Lando 1.5 - 2 seconds off the race pace in France. Then you make pure speculation statements mentioning "finances" and "bonus's" yet have no source or even a figure to back anything up.

What i did kindly asked is please do not repeatedly reply with zero sources to back up any of the finance and bonus claims you are making and instead resorting to posting speculation like below as it adds nothing further to this exact conversation. Thanking you kindly

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

[aran.vtec]

I feel the situation with Riccardo is similar to what we saw with Hamilton earlier in the year , Russel consistently in the top 5 and Hamilton outside the top 10, As soon as the Merc became some what competitive Hamilton was back on top form.

Maybe its not a car issue but more of a motivational issue.

[Spoutnik]

I feel the situation with Riccardo is similar to what we saw with Hamilton earlier in the year , Russel consistently in the top 5 and Hamilton outside the top 10, As soon as the Merc became some what competitive Hamilton was back on top form.

Maybe its not a car issue but more of a motivational issue.

Who knows.. Hamilton has been doing some weird experiments and Russel was lucky.
At the same time Ricciardo is, indeed, the last McLaren winner ! And the last "non top 3" winner on raw pace

[mwillems]

I literally googled and pasted the best link i could find which you replied to me about which said it was 3 million pounds difference between 4th and 5th.
Compare that to pure speculation you pasted below with no links or proof anywhere to be seen

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

I will re request kindly Please try not to reply to me if you don't know and just guessing and speculating in the future please.

You're missing the point, nor am I sure you can get it. If you are going to consider the finances of finishing positions, consider more than just prize money, such as sponsor bonus' which will certainly exist, even if we don't know how much for, or the fact that finishing 4th one year and 5th the next will affect your rates the next time a contract expires.

I made a point in 1 of my posts that the difference between 4th and 5th is only 3 million pounds according to this source i found in google below and not the end of the world and that the situation has a "clear positive" due to the extra wind and cfd time it affords. I said the sacrifice is worth it. My point was very clear!
https://www.totalsportal.com/f1/formula ... ize-money/


Your point if i got it correctly was that you clearly do not agree 3 million pounds is worth it and do not agree or care or even mention the extra wind tunnel and CFD time it affords which i stated is absolutely imperative after we saw Lando 1.5 - 2 seconds off the race pace in France. Then you make pure speculation statements mentioning "finances" and "bonus's" yet have no source or even a figure to back anything up.

What i did kindly asked is please do not repeatedly reply with zero sources to back up any of the finance and bonus claims you are making and instead resorting to posting speculation like below as it adds nothing further to this exact conversation. Thanking you kindly

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

No my reply was not that 3m wasn't worth it.
My reply is that you are misunderstanding the business.

Simply finding and posting a fact doesn't mean you have found all of the relevant facts to make a judgement or a point. There will be more money at stake of the examples I posted.

They were posted correctly as examples to you that might trigger the realisation that the fact you posted does not represent a complete picture.

I'm dropping from this line now, it'll be interesting to see if you are able to acknowledge this or just continue to argue I'm speculating and continue with your "fact".

[runningmanz]

Some of you guys are too focused on the money details and don't even look at where the value is with someone like Dan (who is now on much less than Lando anyway)and this has been spelt out in detail already. All the money in the world isn't going to help if McLaren can't work smarter and figure out where they are going wrong. They have enough now with all the sponsors and its less important in this cost cap era hence why minnow teams now have a better chance of making some inroads against the big teams by doing things more efficiently with less money. Swapping drivers around especially with inexperienced ones that haven't got a proven track record either to maybe snag an extra few mill or WCC spot is like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic its not going to make a difference in big picture of winning championships when the car is slow. Sort out the sinking ship first and get the car where it is supposed to be and give the guys a car they deserve and in Dan's case what he was promised before he joined McLaren.

[Mclarensenna]

You're missing the point, nor am I sure you can get it. If you are going to consider the finances of finishing positions, consider more than just prize money, such as sponsor bonus' which will certainly exist, even if we don't know how much for, or the fact that finishing 4th one year and 5th the next will affect your rates the next time a contract expires.

I made a point in 1 of my posts that the difference between 4th and 5th is only 3 million pounds according to this source i found in google below and not the end of the world and that the situation has a "clear positive" due to the extra wind and cfd time it affords. I said the sacrifice is worth it. My point was very clear!
https://www.totalsportal.com/f1/formula ... ize-money/


Your point if i got it correctly was that you clearly do not agree 3 million pounds is worth it and do not agree or care or even mention the extra wind tunnel and CFD time it affords which i stated is absolutely imperative after we saw Lando 1.5 - 2 seconds off the race pace in France. Then you make pure speculation statements mentioning "finances" and "bonus's" yet have no source or even a figure to back anything up.

What i did kindly asked is please do not repeatedly reply with zero sources to back up any of the finance and bonus claims you are making and instead resorting to posting speculation like below as it adds nothing further to this exact conversation. Thanking you kindly

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

No my reply was not that 3m wasn't worth it.
My reply is that you are misunderstanding the business.

Simply finding and posting a fact doesn't mean you have found all of the relevant facts to make a judgement or a point. There will be more money at stake of the examples I posted.

They were posted correctly as examples to you that might trigger the realisation that the fact you posted does not represent a complete picture.

I'm dropping from this line now, it'll be interesting to see if you are able to acknowledge this or just continue to argue I'm speculating and continue with your "fact".

1. " I don't know what the bonus is"
2. "Perhaps there are actually penalties for finishing 5th in the constructors and lose out on several more million?"
3. "Who knows, but there is more financially at stake than a few million in prize money."

4. "Simply finding and posting a fact doesn't mean you have found all of the relevant facts" <--------------- I stated 1 source. You stated zero. All you have stated is comments like 1-3 above in comparison. yet you accuse "me" now of not having all the facts? The irony is quite strong i must admit.
Thanks for replying again i guess

[mwillems]

@runningmanz I'm not going to say I agree with the shuffling deck chairs on the titanic statement lol But on the whole I agree.

Point I have been making since a few races ago is that all aspects of the team can probably be improved from infrastructure and fabrication techniques to design tools, management decisions, driver lineup, design staff, pitstops, strategy calls and others. There are no golden bullets, the only thing that will get us to the top is relentless improvement in all areas and a little bit of luck. That's not to say that a decent wind tunnel that is on-prem won't be a big win, it will be. But it won't single handedly deliver us a title or even close to it, we need to be better everywhere.

As for money, the F1 team has no financial issues. As far as I recall the debt sits with the group and the money injected to the team, the owners have always ensured the team have the money to compete and in fact I know that the teams revenue on at least the 2019 season was $185m dollars, well above the budget cap.

The team also sought investment and received it from MSP Capital which led the team to be fully funded until 2023. The CapEx projects (Wind Tunnel) are not being funded by the F1 team.
The group has worked hard to put the F1 team into a totally solid and independent position, which is what allowed them to sell a 15% stake and recoup some of the money invested in the team. There are no budgetary reasons that are stopping the team from pushing on, let's put it that way.

I also doubt the team will be happy with 4th or 5th place. They will chase the positions that bring the prestige that will attract the best drivers and allow them to keep the big talents like Lando. Money has little to do with how they set their ambitions. Fighting at the top is the only thing that counts and success on track will provide the success elsewhere to fund the team and get the talent either on track or off it.

Edit: Revenue for the F1 Team in 2021 was £211m.

[organic]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10344013/

Good article about how the development path of the car was and still is affected by the Bahrain brake troubles