2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[runningmanz]

@runningmanz I'm not going to say I agree with the shuffling deck chairs on the titanic statement lol But on the whole I agree.

Point I have been making since a few races ago is that all aspects of the team can probably be improved from infrastructure and fabrication techniques to design tools, management decisions, driver lineup, design staff, pitstops, strategy calls and others. There are no golden bullets, the only thing that will get us to the top is relentless improvement in all areas and a little bit of luck. That's not to say that a decent wind tunnel that is on-prem won't be a big win, it will be. But it won't single handedly deliver us a title or even close to it, we need to be better everywhere.

As for money, the F1 team has no financial issues. As far as I recall the debt sits with the group and the money injected to the team, the owners have always ensured the team have the money to compete and in fact I know that the teams revenue on at least the 2019 season was $185m dollars, well above the budget cap.

The team also sought investment and received it from MSP Capital which led the team to be fully funded until 2023. The CapEx projects (Wind Tunnel) are not being funded by the F1 team.
The group has worked hard to put the F1 team into a totally solid and independent position, which is what allowed them to sell a 15% stake and recoup some of the money invested in the team. There are no budgetary reasons that are stopping the team from pushing on, let's put it that way.

I also doubt the team will be happy with 4th or 5th place. They will chase the positions that bring the prestige that will attract the best drivers and allow them to keep the big talents like Lando. Money has little to do with how they set their ambitions. Fighting at the top is the only thing that counts and success on track will provide the success elsewhere to fund the team and get the talent either on track or off it.

Edit: Revenue for the F1 Team in 2021 was £211m.

Well yeah the Titanic analogy might be a bit extreme lol but you get the idea. The car is actually worse than last year on the whole in ability to race near/at the front on merit at any races, so we are sinking in a way tbh. Need to plug the holes and get things moving again!

Again the drivers imo are working well together and giving good feedback but the car is still miles off not through their fault. The money situation is fine now and therefore this relatively modest revenue difference from say 4th to 5th is not critical to moving up in the WCC significantly. Of course the team want to do better in the WCC but fighting at the front is a big difference and much more important goal. Look at what Ferrari did this season. The drivers didn't magically do it all for Ferrari from last year to now. Obviously they found the right path with the current regs and are now reaping the rewards. Again working smarter under this new cost cap.

The team has two popular drivers that bring alot go the team in various facets it's a big reason why I believe we have so many sponsors now who want to be onboard. The overall environment is better just need the smarts in development to produce a better car and get back to challenging for championships. That's what everyone wants and is the main obvious goal long term.

[Emag]

In terms of relative pace, this year they have definitely taken a relatively big step backwards I would say. The car last year was peaky, and the peaks were definitely not high enough to mount a proper challenge the front, but at least it allowed them to play a bit with them occasionally. The second Austria race last year was the most competitive McLaren has been for a while in pure pace I would say, with Russia coming in at a very close second (if not better actually). And of course Monza as well, but I feel like they were closer to the front in those other two races.

In Russia, Lando was in a league of his own. He was building the gap to Perez and only Lewis had better pace than him, and I maintain the belief that without the rain, Lewis would not have been able to get through. The performance difference was not big enough for Lando to get overtaken, and last year the car was very competitive in the straights.

Add to that the numerous occasions when the car was <0.5s close to pole, it is quite obvious that the car this year is not even remotely as competitive as they were last year.

[mwillems]

In terms of relative pace, this year they have definitely taken a relatively big step backwards I would say. The car last year was peaky, and the peaks were definitely not high enough to mount a proper challenge the front, but at least it allowed them to play a bit with them occasionally. The second Austria race last year was the most competitive McLaren has been for a while in pure pace I would say, with Russia coming in at a very close second (if not better actually). And of course Monza as well, but I feel like they were closer to the front in those other two races.

In Russia, Lando was in a league of his own. He was building the gap to Perez and only Lewis had better pace than him, and I maintain the belief that without the rain, Lewis would not have been able to get through. The performance difference was not big enough for Lando to get overtaken, and last year the car was very competitive in the straights.

Add to that the numerous occasions when the car was <0.5s close to pole, it is quite obvious that the car this year is not even remotely as competitive as they were last year.

Totally agree, even Spa was strong until Lando binned it. This latest upgrade does give us some hope that we might yet fight for 4th and it will be interesting to see how the next upgrade evolves.

Perhaps this season will be one to forget, but if that final upgrade made the car a top 3 car on pace by the end of the year I'd be a happy supporter, I think that is my hope now that we can finish the season on a high and carry that momentum into next year.

Naturally it would help if Daniel were able to get some more points on the board.

[runningmanz]

In defense of this car I do think it has potential and is easier to drive and better balanced than last year but it just has too much drag in general and that lack of top speed is really hurting us far too often this year.

[mwillems]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

[djos]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

That was one of the things Daniel mentioned recently that it behaved differently corner to corner. That has got to be hard to trust on the limit.

[runningmanz]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

Right from earlier this year Key said it was easier to drive. How much easier wasn't clear and your right in that it still retains some of the quirks (DNA from last years car as Dan mentioned) which at times cause issues pushing it to the limits but overall in handling and balance it's heading in the right direction but that drag and lack of top speed is a big problem.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/26/ne ... -to-drive/

[SmallSoldier]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10344013/

Good article about how the development path of the car was and still is affected by the Bahrain brake troubles

Thanks… A shame that the brake saga set them back as much for the season and his reasoning in regards to form going up and down because of been a bit out sync compared to the competition makes sense.

Let’s hope that once the new package is understood and tuned a bit better, we see the gap close a bit to the front… I for one had a positive surprise from France, since I expected them to struggle much more than they did.

[SmallSoldier]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

Right from earlier this year Key said it was easier to drive. How much easier wasn't clear and your right in that it still retains some of the quirks (DNA from last years car as Dan mentioned) which at times cause issues pushing it to the limits but overall in handling and balance it's heading in the right direction but that drag and lack of top speed is a big problem.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/26/ne ... -to-drive/

I struggle to understand how there could be a carryover from the previous generation of cars into this one when:

A) You have a completely different aerodynamic model that creates downforce in a different way
B) You have a different suspension rule set
C) McLaren has a completely different suspension, not only compared to the rest of the field, but more importantly to last year’s
D) The car is carrying a new tub, new chassis, new wheelbase
E) The tires are different in construction
F) The car has exchange strengths and weaknesses… It has turned slow corners from a weakness into an strength and it has turned top speed from a strength into a weakness.

I mean, there is not a lot that I can think of that has been carried over from previous generation of cars into this one… Therefore, how can the “DNA” be carried over?

No one knew before this season how the cars would feel once they reach the track… Even when very close to the first testing session in Barcelona the driver’s from all the teams weren’t sure what to expect from the cars when they actually hit the track… Is that Daniel refers as DNA carried over simply a characteristic of this new generation of cars? Because that seems more plausible.

[mclaren111]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

Right from earlier this year Key said it was easier to drive. How much easier wasn't clear and your right in that it still retains some of the quirks (DNA from last years car as Dan mentioned) which at times cause issues pushing it to the limits but overall in handling and balance it's heading in the right direction but that drag and lack of top speed is a big problem.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/26/ne ... -to-drive/

I struggle to understand how there could be a carryover from the previous generation of cars into this one when:

A) You have a completely different aerodynamic model that creates downforce in a different way
B) You have a different suspension rule set
C) McLaren has a completely different suspension, not only compared to the rest of the field, but more importantly to last year’s
D) The car is carrying a new tub, new chassis, new wheelbase
E) The tires are different in construction
F) The car has exchange strengths and weaknesses… It has turned slow corners from a weakness into an strength and it has turned top speed from a strength into a weakness.

I mean, there is not a lot that I can think of that has been carried over from previous generation of cars into this one… Therefore, how can the “DNA” be carried over?

No one knew before this season how the cars would feel once they reach the track… Even when very close to the first testing session in Barcelona the driver’s from all the teams weren’t sure what to expect from the cars when they actually hit the track… Is that Daniel refers as DNA carried over simply a characteristic of this new generation of cars? Because that seems more plausible.

Amen... Our car is just sh*t...

[Spoutnik]

I think this car has the same issue as the SF1000 of 2020 for Ferrari (NB : I made this parallel because Binotto described the failure of the SF1000 this way). It was design with a certain amount of drag "considering" it will have the most powerful engine in the back of the car. In both case it went wrong (illegal engine for Ferrari, and Merc not being as powerful as before/being runned conservative).

So the car is performing well on twisty tracks such as Monaco, Imola but it's very problematic for most of the track and especially against the monster RBPT Engine, the low drag Alpine etc.

[SmallSoldier]

I think this car has the same issue as the SF1000 of 2020 for Ferrari (NB : I made this parallel because Binotto described the failure of the SF1000 this way). It was design with a certain amount of drag "considering" it will have the most powerful engine in the back of the car. In both case it went wrong (illegal engine for Ferrari, and Merc not being as powerful as before/being runned conservative).

So the car is performing well on twisty tracks such as Monaco, Imola but it's very problematic for most of the track and especially against the monster RBPT Engine, the low drag Alpine etc.

That’s a theory that I also share… There is a reason why most often than Mercedes, McLaren and Aston Martin are at the bottom of the speed charts.

[Spoutnik]

I think this car has the same issue as the SF1000 of 2020 for Ferrari (NB : I made this parallel because Binotto described the failure of the SF1000 this way). It was design with a certain amount of drag "considering" it will have the most powerful engine in the back of the car. In both case it went wrong (illegal engine for Ferrari, and Merc not being as powerful as before/being runned conservative).

So the car is performing well on twisty tracks such as Monaco, Imola but it's very problematic for most of the track and especially against the monster RBPT Engine, the low drag Alpine etc.

That’s a theory that I also share… There is a reason why most often than Mercedes, McLaren and Aston Martin are at the bottom of the speed charts.

Yes, and like the SF90 the year before the McLaren and the AM of 2021 were cars with low drags that excels at high speed : McL 1-2 in Monza, Seb P3 at Baku...

[SmallSoldier]

I think this car has the same issue as the SF1000 of 2020 for Ferrari (NB : I made this parallel because Binotto described the failure of the SF1000 this way). It was design with a certain amount of drag "considering" it will have the most powerful engine in the back of the car. In both case it went wrong (illegal engine for Ferrari, and Merc not being as powerful as before/being runned conservative).

So the car is performing well on twisty tracks such as Monaco, Imola but it's very problematic for most of the track and especially against the monster RBPT Engine, the low drag Alpine etc.

That’s a theory that I also share… There is a reason why most often than Mercedes, McLaren and Aston Martin are at the bottom of the speed charts.

Yes, and like the SF90 the year before the McLaren and the AM of 2021 were cars with low drags that excels at high speed : McL 1-2 in Monza, Seb P3 at Baku...

It’s not outside of the realm of possibility that there was an expectation (potentially driven by Mercedes themselves) that there engines would be ahead of the rest and therefore concessions were made with that in consideration.

[mwillems]

Information coming from the team is that it is more balanced but slower, but I wouldn't say I'd picked up on anything to say it was easier to drive. IO have heard that it does not behave like most cars and I'd heard snippets of it changing behaviour in corners, which is the worst trait ever.

Right from earlier this year Key said it was easier to drive. How much easier wasn't clear and your right in that it still retains some of the quirks (DNA from last years car as Dan mentioned) which at times cause issues pushing it to the limits but overall in handling and balance it's heading in the right direction but that drag and lack of top speed is a big problem.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/26/ne ... -to-drive/

I struggle to understand how there could be a carryover from the previous generation of cars into this one when:

A) You have a completely different aerodynamic model that creates downforce in a different way
B) You have a different suspension rule set
C) McLaren has a completely different suspension, not only compared to the rest of the field, but more importantly to last year’s
D) The car is carrying a new tub, new chassis, new wheelbase
E) The tires are different in construction
F) The car has exchange strengths and weaknesses… It has turned slow corners from a weakness into an strength and it has turned top speed from a strength into a weakness.

I mean, there is not a lot that I can think of that has been carried over from previous generation of cars into this one… Therefore, how can the “DNA” be carried over?

No one knew before this season how the cars would feel once they reach the track… Even when very close to the first testing session in Barcelona the driver’s from all the teams weren’t sure what to expect from the cars when they actually hit the track… Is that Daniel refers as DNA carried over simply a characteristic of this new generation of cars? Because that seems more plausible.

I had read that some of the traits had carried over but I have no idea how.

One thing I always believed and I think was semi confirmed, is that the front end of the cars in this formula isn't as strong and also doesn't not enjoy rolling or braking into the corner. I don't know if that is still true though, so in that sense it could be that the car is better but the formula has pushed back some of the good work we did on improving the front end.

The other piece is the behaviour from corner to corner, this is different to other cars as it was last year and this is still a trait of the car.

But you're right, how the hell can it be? The only thing I can think of is the fact that the cars have very complicated behaviour in which they try to help the car rise under braking and drop at the front under acceleration. Counter to what should happen normally. The only thing I can think of is that the manner in which the Mclaren does this is not the usual?

But I'm probably miles off.