2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

[organic]

Sorry if it’s been discussed but did anyone else see the orange material sticking out of Sainz’s engine cover gills? Thought it was a bit odd as it wasn’t symmetrical or on Lec’s car..

Sainz said post-race it was a large plastic bag. Didn't know whether or not it was costing him downforce

[Spoutnik]

I think what is more significant and forgive me but I think it's been missed in the discusiion, is what exactly happened to Charles and why he had to pit a third time. I'll explain. I used live timing again after the race and while i haven't memorised the whole thing, I believe I noticed this...

After being repassed by Ves a second time, Charles was slower than him but not exactly 'slow'. Certainly wouldn't have had to waste another 19 seconds pitstop at that point. He set his fastest lap of the race on the hards. Was mostly faster than then 3rd placed George and at times lapped 'merely'' 0.4 seconds behind a very fast running Ves. Again, no reason to pit. He was generally at that point 2,5 to 3 seconds behind Ves or let me say Max. I thought that was fine with over 26 laps to go for Max and himself still. Hard tyre runners were setting their fastest laps in the 25 plus laps range. No need to pit. At that point he loses to only Max. Bad but better still
But seemingly all of a sudden the gap to Max goes to like 5.6 the 6 plus then 7 then George is right on his tail, then he is passed then pits, etc

What I am saying is his tyres actually seemed to quickly fall away, which was very strange. And is very different from slowly firing up to temperature which was the trend for other hard runners. What exactly happened to Charles in that stint? If I have the time I may go over the timing again if I missed something

I think his tyre fall off massively when there was more and more drizzles imo. They were then too cold. When Russell passed him he could barely turn or was sliding midway in the turn.
Track temp was too low probably at this point.

[chrisc90]

That looks more like that gold heat reflective tape coming from sainz car

[Just_a_fan]

I think what is more significant and forgive me but I think it's been missed in the discusiion, is what exactly happened to Charles and why he had to pit a third time. I'll explain. I used live timing again after the race and while i haven't memorised the whole thing, I believe I noticed this...

After being repassed by Ves a second time, Charles was slower than him but not exactly 'slow'. Certainly wouldn't have had to waste another 19 seconds pitstop at that point. He set his fastest lap of the race on the hards. Was mostly faster than then 3rd placed George and at times lapped 'merely'' 0.4 seconds behind a very fast running Ves. Again, no reason to pit. He was generally at that point 2,5 to 3 seconds behind Ves or let me say Max. I thought that was fine with over 26 laps to go for Max and himself still. Hard tyre runners were setting their fastest laps in the 25 plus laps range. No need to pit. At that point he loses to only Max. Bad but better still
But seemingly all of a sudden the gap to Max goes to like 5.6 the 6 plus then 7 then George is right on his tail, then he is passed then pits, etc

What I am saying is his tyres actually seemed to quickly fall away, which was very strange. And is very different from slowly firing up to temperature which was the trend for other hard runners. What exactly happened to Charles in that stint? If I have the time I may go over the timing again if I missed something

I think his tyre fall off massively when there was more and more drizzles imo. They were then too cold. When Russell passed him he could barely turn or was sliding midway in the turn.
Track temp was too low probably at this point.

Yes, the rain screwed Charles. Even George on (admittedly well used by then) mediums said he was struggling with the dampness on track. Only the soft tyre runners were able to keep pushing at that point.

[Sieper]

Yeah, I saw something stick out of one of the gills too. I one particular shot.

[justmoi]

I think what is more significant and forgive me but I think it's been missed in the discusiion, is what exactly happened to Charles and why he had to pit a third time. I'll explain. I used live timing again after the race and while i haven't memorised the whole thing, I believe I noticed this...

After being repassed by Ves a second time, Charles was slower than him but not exactly 'slow'. Certainly wouldn't have had to waste another 19 seconds pitstop at that point. He set his fastest lap of the race on the hards. Was mostly faster than then 3rd placed George and at times lapped 'merely'' 0.4 seconds behind a very fast running Ves. Again, no reason to pit. He was generally at that point 2,5 to 3 seconds behind Ves or let me say Max. I thought that was fine with over 26 laps to go for Max and himself still. Hard tyre runners were setting their fastest laps in the 25 plus laps range. No need to pit. At that point he loses to only Max. Bad but better still
But seemingly all of a sudden the gap to Max goes to like 5.6 the 6 plus then 7 then George is right on his tail, then he is passed then pits, etc

What I am saying is his tyres actually seemed to quickly fall away, which was very strange. And is very different from slowly firing up to temperature which was the trend for other hard runners. What exactly happened to Charles in that stint? If I have the time I may go over the timing again if I missed something

I think his tyre fall off massively when there was more and more drizzles imo. They were then too cold. When Russell passed him he could barely turn or was sliding midway in the turn.
Track temp was too low probably at this point.

Ok that would make sense. I don't recall if any of the other hard runners pitted at that point though

[Spoutnik]

[Logie]

Was looking forward to the race but felt, for me atleast it was a disapointing race to watch.

Really happy for Merc, did a great job but dont have the pace to challenge RB

DIsapointed in Ferrari, but decisions cost them. Was going to slate them but read LEC could of only gone on hards or softs so not much to say about that.

[renault rs26]

Why the saltiness against the Brits?
I did not sense any kind of bias. Lewis and George were the dark horses for the race, and were the only two of the top 6 cars that were doing stuff to spoil the party at the front.
The commentators have a duty to hype the race down to the last lap.

And no redbull is not shutting them up with results. Redbull is a British team. In fact redbull are expected to defend their championship this year.
I really don't see the need for the anti UK sentiment for such a good race today.

Because you're Brit. Crofty today literally said they're biased when there were 3 Brit's in the top 5.

It's a British company staffed by Brits broadcast to brits, maybe they should include more Chinese coverage?

Not blaming them, just saying because ringo said he doesn't see they're biased.

[Big Tea]

Because you're Brit. Crofty today literally said they're biased when there were 3 Brit's in the top 5.

It's a British company staffed by Brits broadcast to brits, maybe they should include more Chinese coverage?

Not blaming them, just saying because ringo said he doesn't see they're biased.

Yeh, I apologised earlier, I should not have quipped.
(applicable to anyone else offended, I'm not looking for an argument)

[sosic2121]

Ferrari had the speed, their mistake was responding to the pit stops of soft runners Russell and Verstappen. Doing a short stint on mediums messed up their strategy. Lewis made his first stop on lap 30, the optimal for a medium medium soft strategy.

Their mistake is that they were scared to lose. If they had optimised their stints they could have had the 1-2 they were looking for.

You are right. And the worst part is leclerc's box on lap 20 just to jump sainz

He couldn't jump Russell, his pace was OK, he should have stayed out, use the tires he had, and build tire offset to Russell. That way M M S would be more viable too.
And this is not hindsight, this is pure logic.

But then they would have to tell sainz to move aside, and they don't want to do that. So stupid!
So best chance for ferrari winning (any) race is if sainz's engine explodes on lap 1

[Sieper]

Gotta say that the bickering in these race threads has become much less worse. Maybe as nothing very controversial is going on, but still. Good to see.

[Watto]

Same reason as why they were slow in quali. Couldn't switch them on well. But to be clear, LEC was the fastest car on track in the last stint.

https://i.imgur.com/g6A91xd.jpeg

Lat 54 to 70, average lap times for the drivers here:
LEC: 1.22.320
HAM: 1.22.560
VER: 1.23.324
SAI: 1.23.647

Aside from the stint on hards, LEC was consistently the fastest average pace in the race.

EDIT: updated graph with average laps rather than 90%ile laps, average laps in the race remain unchanged of course.

I'm sorry but this summation is just plain wrong unless you're reading into data what you want to see. And people shouldn't just blindly accept all these data interpretations as facts.

Anyone with the F1 app can simply 'replay live timing' which I've just done. Lewis was the fastest car in the last stint. Right until when he caught Sainz first and then Russell which off course slowed him down. After that, ten seconds behind with about 4 laps left it was surely just bring the car home. Noteworthy that Leclerc had newer soft tyres as well but wasn't faster. Leclerc also had no one to fight until finishing 0.3 behind Perez on the final lap. Being in the position he was fighting for every point he would have had every reason to be pushing to catch Perez.

To use the average speed over all of the last stint to say Leclerc was quickest is, well, assuning there's no wrong intent, plain wrong.

Also an aside, no data showed conclusively that Mercedes ran a low df setup. That is almost ridiculous to say that

You are correct. Smart man.
Dialtone does great work with his charts, but I agree with you that his data analysis of the laps (not the velocity traces - his trace interpretation is OK) are a bit too black and white.

I had a look a the data myself and Charles was a tenth to two tenths slower in comparable parts of their last stints. Dialtone just did a big sweeping average which is so not right. Context is important. When did the pitstop? Were they on similar tyres? where they battling or fighting through traffic? were they told to save fuel? Dirty air etc. Context is so important.

Agree Charles didn't have the pace on the softs for what ever reason was expecting him to gain on Perez and he didn't really.

I think they had the pace on the mediums, Charles in partuclar. Perhaps what we don't really know was was their first pit stop forced because tyre deg or panic was surprised the mediums didn't last much longer than the softs.

I feel like their were a bunch of things at play, Max's pace, The Mercs while I still don't think have the race pace Ferrari or RB, they have closed the gap to now where even a little slip by RB or Ferrari they can be ready to pounce. Red Bull forced the Mercs, the Mercs forced Ferarri knowing they weren't easy to overtake now. Ferrari were caught out again.


Dialtone does a great job often check by the replies post race to see hs breakdown. But as above there is an an element of interpretation - or as I made a point a few weeks ago sometimes data can mislead, I know watching football. You can watch a game see who wins, post match look at all the key stats that would normally point to a win and find it didn't really show in any of the key data watching the match showed (if that makes sense) Stats say team A should have won. But team B won because well

[Sieper]

Charles his softs weren't new and Checo's stint on yellow wasn't that long yet, he had the tire life and upped the pace (also to overtake Sainz and potentially Russell). Which likely wasn't on the table and certainly not after the VSC.

[Just_a_fan]

Gotta say that the bickering in these race threads has become much less worse. Maybe as nothing very controversial is going on, but still. Good to see.

There are fewer people here, I think, and so there are fewer people picking up and responding to any posts that are, shall we say, "fan baiting". Having said that, there are fewer of those type of posts in the first place - perhaps some people are having a forum holiday thanks to the mods. Either way, it's less toxic and so good news for the rest.