2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[McL-H]

The important point here is that they let the drivers contract expire. Right up until midnight (or whenever stated) on that day He owed them allegiance. From that point on, not having a contract seems to indicate your services are no longer required, make your own arrangements.

If he deliberately went out of his way to deceive them, then yes thats bad. But is reply was almost immediate on twitter, so it is unlikely he phoned Zac and said "look, lets stitch up Alpine"

Pure from a contractual perspective, you are obviously right. No point for me in arguing about that. Based on the contract, he has no obligation. And yes, Renault messed up too. But to me it’s far more about the principle involved here.

He has probably been in negotiations with McLaren before his contract expired, which I’d consider the smart thing to do. Taking it Alpine had two drivers already and no other spot on the grid for him. But when then on 08/01, a day after the contractual obligations expire (not a week, not a month), the seat becomes available to you. There is a moral obligation imo. And in all honesty, it is not as if McLaren is that much of a step forward over Renault either, if any.

[Ground Effect]

[/quote]

I can agree to a fair point. No, it is not new and the wordings “contracts in F1 are worth as much as the paper its written on” exist for a reason. But I do not agree the case of Ricciardo is comparable to this. He did not owe Red Bull anything anymore. They invested in him and he paid them back a huge deal. It comes closer to the Ocon deal, but I really think this takes it a step further. Renault has invested a lot in Piastri for the past 4 years. They were fortunate with 2 good drivers in their team already and unlucky in finding another spot for him on the grid. They would had given him a contract on Sunday if Alonso had announced it a day earlier. But he waited, purposely or not.

For Piastri to turn his back on a team that has financed him for all these years, and walking out the door freely, just because they are 1 day short of what they were obliged by the contract.. it doesn’t feel right for me. It seems like he is backstabbing them. Even when assuming the speculations of collaboration with Alonso are false.
[/quote]

In my opinion, it's simply bad management from Alpine, really bad. How could they let the option expire? Frankly, I think they believed they held all the cards with Piastri. It's all about knowing the worth of your assets and being smart. I remember when McLaren were trying to come to an agreement with Ref Bull for Key, they knew Red Bull were interested in Lando, so there was talk about a loan move. Marko was asked and he said, why would they do a deal for Lando when his option with McLaren was expiring at the end of September that year. McLaren HAD to give Lando a seat, he would have been free to walk and most likely would have. McLaren didn't wait for the option to expire, why would they? If you do, you're telling the driver to sort himself out.

[Big Tea]

The important point here is that they let the drivers contract expire. Right up until midnight (or whenever stated) on that day He owed them allegiance. From that point on, not having a contract seems to indicate your services are no longer required, make your own arrangements.

If he deliberately went out of his way to deceive them, then yes thats bad. But is reply was almost immediate on twitter, so it is unlikely he phoned Zac and said "look, lets stitch up Alpine"

Pure from a contractual perspective, you are obviously right. No point for me in arguing about that. Based on the contract, he has no obligation. And yes, Renault messed up too. But to me it’s far more about the principle involved here.

He has probably been in negotiations with McLaren before his contract expired, which I’d consider the smart thing to do. Taking it Alpine had two drivers already and no other spot on the grid for him. But when then on 08/01, a day after the contractual obligations expire (not a week, not a month), the seat becomes available to you. There is a moral obligation imo. And in all honesty, it is not as if McLaren is that much of a step forward over Renault either, if any.

From his point of view, he did not have a 'job' next year, and someone from Mclaren said "you want to come with us? sign here" would you expect him to say 'Lets wait a while to see if Alpine want me' or where is my pen?

Alpine had obviously led him to believe he was no longer requires, and muffed up badly by not putting some sort of first dibbs on him even if they called him something else and came out of the PR budget.


Edit, I really do have no idea what he is like as a person and his morals, so just generalising

[McL-H]

McLaren have always signed the best drivers they can and then managed the egos behind the scenes. I think you are projecting way too much onto Piastri tbh. Mark Webber is likely the driving force behind the possible move to McLaren. If he sees McLaren as a better opportunity for Piastri than Alpine, then that's a sign McLaren are probably on the right track. if anything it looks like Alpine dropped the ball on this, if the option they had for Piastri expired then you can't really blame Webber for looking at other options for his driver.

As for driver investment ? All teams take a punt on young drivers, sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. McLaren made sure they signed Lando to a long term deal as soon as they could, Alpine don't appear to have done that with Piastri. They assumed Alonso had nowhere to go, and that Piastri would be happy trundling around in the Williams. I honestly think Piastri will not take long to get to grips with F1 and then start putting in the performances.
Tbh if McLaren turned down the chance to sign Piastri they'd be utterly mad.

I agree Renault dropped the ball on this too. They’ve allowed Alonso to play them, while they should had told him that if no contract was agreed before 31st of July, he wouldn’t have a seat next year. That’s another reason why I never found Otmar to be a good team boss.

Picking teams is always a long shot. Webber doesn’t know much more than we do in that respect. Both Alpine and McLaren have capabilities of taking it to the front teams. Which one succeeds, if any, is a big guess. If it were that straightforward, Alonso wouldn’t have made that many bad team switches I think.

I believe it has a bad outlook on McLaren (and that without taking into account the Palou PR disaster). With Lando we have already got a driver capable of fighting for the championship. All you need is a good sidekick. Not the new Michael Schumacher. It is always better to have 2 capable drivers, but what fashion is acceptable to your brand? I don’t know. Personally, it doesn’t feel right. But I guess that’s just me.

[McL-H]

From his point of view, he did not have a 'job' next year, and someone from Mclaren said "you want to come with us? sign here" would you expect him to say 'Lets wait a while to see if Alpine want me' or where is my pen?

Alpine had obviously led him to believe he was no longer requires, and muffed up badly by not putting some sort of first dibbs on him even if they called him something else and came out of the PR budget.


Edit, I really do have no idea what he is like as a person and his morals, so just generalising

But Piastri could not had signed a McLaren contract before 08/01. There is also still no confirmation on whether he has signed a contract with them or not. If at the moment Alonso announced he’d leave Renault, and Piastri did not have a contract with McLaren yet at that time, would you then not expect him to stay at Renault and repay them?

[Balalu]

Let me add some spice to this.

Alex Palou: “I have recently learned from the media that this afternoon, without my approval, Chip Ganassi Racing issued a press release announcing that I would be driving with CGR in 2023. Even more surprising was that CGR’s release included a “quote” which did not come from me."

Oscar Piasti: "I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine F1 have put out a press release late this afternoon that I am driving for them next year. This is wrong and I have not signed a contract with Alpine for 2023. I will not be driving for Alpine next year."

Seems like a synonym. Zak, is that you? 🫡

[Big Tea]

From his point of view, he did not have a 'job' next year, and someone from Mclaren said "you want to come with us? sign here" would you expect him to say 'Lets wait a while to see if Alpine want me' or where is my pen?

Alpine had obviously led him to believe he was no longer requires, and muffed up badly by not putting some sort of first dibbs on him even if they called him something else and came out of the PR budget.


Edit, I really do have no idea what he is like as a person and his morals, so just generalising

But Piastri could not had signed a McLaren contract before 08/01. There is also still no confirmation on whether he has signed a contract with them or not. If at the moment Alonso announced he’d leave Renault, and Piastri did not have a contract with McLaren yet at that time, would you then not expect him to stay at Renault and repay them?

It only takes a phone call to confirm that what was discussed at some point can now go ahead. It could have been weeks or even months ago and just not signed. Don't know who's actual signature would be required, just Piasteri or Mark as well but PDF docs are accepted in law now, so it could have just been an email, or the signed articles left with an intermediary and instructed to execute them if they had not been held by the first.


Or, as some have said, maybe there is more to it that we do not know

[djos]

Also, it appears Fernando’s move took everyone by surprise, so it’s entirely possible that Piastri, now sure of a seat with Alpine could opt to stay, assuming he’s in a position to make a choice that is.

Oscar would be mad to take the McLaren seat after seeing what a weird car it is to drive - he's far better off getting to grips with F1 in a "normal" handling F1 car.

[mwillems]

I think that last statement is most pertinent. I suspect there is more to this then we know. Well there is obviously more than we know, because there are very few facts yet. If he has signed with Mclaren, would the drive be straight into F1 and thus need the removal of Daniel, or would he get a year elsewhere and plenty of F1 tests before getting his drive in 24.

Other facts we do not know are why has Piastri rejected Renault? What has he seen, or what have they done that has precipitated this? Mclaren are not that alluring a team at present (I wouldn't think?) that they can just take the best young talent from other big name teams? Or is it that Piastri will know Renaults history that Alpine are not guaranteed to be around soon enough?

What I will add is that there are also pre-contracts that are a contract to agree a contract under certain circumstances so for example a contract that states that Piastri must accept certain terms if certain conditions occur, such as his deal expiring within a certain timeframe. They've been around in football (Soccer) for a while and are perfectly legitimate, it may have kicked in the moment the 31st of July passed.

if indeed that detail is correct, we don't yet know it is.

[mwillems]

Also, it appears Fernando’s move took everyone by surprise, so it’s entirely possible that Piastri, now sure of a seat with Alpine could opt to stay, assuming he’s in a position to make a choice that is.

Oscar would be mad to take the McLaren seat after seeing what a weird car it is to drive - he's far better off getting to grips with F1 in a "normal" handling F1 car.

Oscar is our reserve driver, will he have had a go in the simulator and know if he can handle the car?

[djos]

Is Piastri a proven fast driver that will perform better than Ricciardo or is it a risk that will also cause drama?

When he made his debut in F4 >>>> Champion.
When he made his debut in F3 >>>> Champion.
When he made his debut in F2 >>>> Champion.

So yes, he is a very talented fast driver!

True, the last 2 drivers to pull off that feat are Russell and Leclerc, and they are both mega drivers!

[runningmanz]

We'll I'm genuinely shocked at what's going on at the moment. I think it's a bad move for Piastri to burn his bridges with Alpine after all the time and money they have put into him. Has to be Mark doing this and tbh it sounds very much like stabbing his fellow F1 compatriot in the back. I will be very disappointed if McLaren have done some kind of deal behind Ricciardos back after they have said numerous time, just as recently as a couple of weeks ago to Fox Sports that Dan will be driving for them in 2023. It basically makes them look like a bunch of liars and will end up a PR nightmare imo. Dan has a large amount of female fans, as the old saying goes don't underestimate a woman scorned, in this case a legion of them. Not to mention what if Piastri has the same trouble in this quirky car as Dan has had? This is crazy stuff.

Mod edit: politics removed

[SmallSoldier]

Also, it appears Fernando’s move took everyone by surprise, so it’s entirely possible that Piastri, now sure of a seat with Alpine could opt to stay, assuming he’s in a position to make a choice that is.

Oscar would be mad to take the McLaren seat after seeing what a weird car it is to drive - he's far better off getting to grips with F1 in a "normal" handling F1 car.

Oscar is our reserve driver, will he have had a go in the simulator and know if he can handle the car?

I wouldn’t think that he has driven the simulator as a reserve driver… On the other hand, he may do as well as Lando and Carlos did it in McLaren… Maybe, just maybe is driver and not the car?


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[Slahinki]

We'll I'm genuinely shocked at what's going on at the moment. I think it's a bad move for Piastri to burn his bridges with Alpine after all the time and money they have put into him. Has to be Mark doing this and tbh it sounds very much like stabbing his fellow F1 compatriot in the back. I will be very disappointed if McLaren have done some kind of deal behind Ricciardos back after they have said numerous time, just as recently as a couple of weeks ago to Fox Sports that Dan will be driving for them in 2023. It basically makes them look like a bunch of liars and will end up a PR nightmare imo. Dan has a large amount of female fans, as the old saying goes don't underestimate a woman scorned, in this case a legion of them. To mention what if Piastri has the same trouble in this quirky car as Dan has had? This is crazy stuff. Don't even get me started on the Pelosi visit to Taiwan and how China has arced up. Nuts, what the heck is going on at the moment?!

What team principals and team bosses say and what they do don't always match up. We see it constantly that "Driver X has our full support, yada yada..." then by the end of the year they are gone. Or in the case of Red Bull, even after the summer break. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect the team to come out publicly and say that Ricciardo has been a massive disappointment and that they rue the day they signed him or something like that. It's always going to be "full support" until it suddenly isn't. That's just the nature of the sport.

[mwillems]

Oscar would be mad to take the McLaren seat after seeing what a weird car it is to drive - he's far better off getting to grips with F1 in a "normal" handling F1 car.

Oscar is our reserve driver, will he have had a go in the simulator and know if he can handle the car?

I wouldn’t think that he has driven the simulator as a reserve driver… On the other hand, he may do as well as Lando and Carlos did it in McLaren… Maybe, just maybe is driver and not the car?


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I hope you're not suggesting Daniel has any part to play in his the teams desire to replace him.

I'd imagine reserve drivers would normally get some Sim time, but since he was also a driver for Renault that might have been out of the question.

But then again, that relationship may well have been much closer than we thought.