2022 Alpine F1 Team

[Alonsismo]

I admire your confidence, but history shows us a few things: with stable regs year over year teams just can't/don't jump from all the way at the back to the front (might jump a place or two) and Alonso doesn't have the "feel" to jump to a team when they are about to do something great.

I think we can assume this one is for a big pay check, because there aren't any race/championship winning seats available the next couple of years.

you are right when the rules have been there for some years, but 2023 is the SECOND year of this rules.

just remember the changes from 2009 to 2010...

and not, AM arte not the 9th team. they are fastest than AT and Williams, and very close to AR and Haas. and this with vettel and stroll... Alonso is ease 0.3-4 faster than both

I can make a bet that Stroll outqualfies Alonso next year. Alonso will be better in the first half of the races though. Alonso is good. But he is getting older. He is at the "shows flashes of brilliance" stage. He wont have the stamina to destroy Lance. He did not destroy Ocon last year. I stand correct that he had more points, but Ocon had more bad luck last year. Head to head when both finished, maybe ocon had more points? And I am not saying Ocon is a more skilled driver, but just by being younger he has had stronger, though less brilliant races more consistently.
Aston's prospects next year look doubtful. The only way they make a quantum leap is by making a more detailed green RB18. I would love to see Alonso at the front, but Aston wont magically end up racing at the front. They arent a Q3 car like Alpine is.

good joke.

Alonso can today win with a decent margin Verstappen.
Alonso is destroying Ocon (usually 0.4-6s every qualy).

2021 only advantage for ocon, was the big bike crash that alonso had that winter.

[ringo]

Then why does Ocon has more points?
Im not a Max fan.. but I do not think Alonso can handle Max. Both on track and with mind games.
I am more a fan of Alonso. My greatest respects for Alonso and Hamilton as f1 pilots in the purest sense, but I have to be realistic.
These young drivers these days are highly specialized and high trained with simulators.
Alonso is doing a very inpecable job to be qualifying the car very high, but something happens in the races where Ocon always finds him and scores higher. Theyre always crossing paths on track. This means they have similar race pace.

[F1since1980]

As a long time Alonso fan, I have to say that his actions yesterday and if Otmar is telling the truth about how all this unfolded, is just totally unprofessional on Alonso's part and I have lost respect. I never get involved in posting things, but after reading the comments on this thread...

Never wanted to believe all the bad press about how he handles himself with team management and within the team, but this is just too much... HE GOT HIS ONLY TWO WC with this team and I have loved this guy since 2004 and especially after'05 & '06 - he is a legend that deserved more than 2 WC we all know that. The history Renault and Alonso have together is long and successful, hell this is a team that put a car INTO A WALL AT SINGAPORE so that he can win a race - who does that for a driver!!!! AND RENAULT WAS FORCED TO SELL THE TEAM BECAUSE OF IT. Doesn't anyone remember that????

Come on Alonso -who took you back after Mclaren round 1 when you were involved in the spygate incident and Lewis was too much to handle? Who took you back after your retirement (I don't remember any team lining up to give you a seat two years ago even when you were willing to drive for free at RB).

No matter what happened behind the scenes at Alpine (Ocon pushing him off, etc.) he needed to handle his departure in a proper, mature and PROFESSIONAL manner. Nothing wrong with going to AM - they offered you what you wanted - but come on man show some decency and CLASS and inform the team about the deal ahead of time (Before the 31st). The outcome probably would not have been any different, but IF all this is true, I am sorry to tell all you ALONSO FAN BOYS - but that was a BS move on a team that has always been there for him. and despite what some of the French haters on this Alpine thread think (you know how you are) - They don't deserve how all this went down and it looks like the timing of it (August 1st) has now cost them Oscar (WAS this done on purpose???). What a sht show. Thank you Alonso. You and Lawernce Stroll deserve each other.

[Redragon]

I guess is Gasly driving for Alpine

[Alonso Fan]

Then why does Ocon has more points?
Im not a Max fan.. but I do not think Alonso can handle Max. Both on track and with mind games.
I am more a fan of Alonso. My greatest respects for Alonso and Hamilton as f1 pilots in the purest sense, but I have to be realistic.
These young drivers these days are highly specialized and high trained with simulators.
Alonso is doing a very inpecable job to be qualifying the car very high, but something happens in the races where Ocon always finds him and scores higher. Theyre always crossing paths on track. This means they have similar race pace.

This is why ocon is ahead on points.


Like come on man you're just making yourself look stupid at this point. Alonso has been faster than Ocon in qualifying and the races by quite some margin in most races. Last year was much more even while alonso was getting back into the swing of things and getting the car more to his liking. This year its no question who is the faster driver

I mean, with your flawed logic you could make a better case for Hamilton being past his prime against Russel

[Sofa King]

Alex Palou will fill the seat. Mark my words

[djos]

I guess is Gasly driving for Alpine

If Oscar ends up at McLaren, I bet Daniel will move back to Alpine. At least the Alpine won't have the "weird" handling characteristics of the McLaren cars.

[Swed3121]

Am I the only worried that something existential is going on behind the scenes at alpine.
Within a day 2 deals that where all but signed blow up and a 2x time world champion moves to a back marker team voluntarily and the hottest young prospect in f1 decided to completely burn all bridges with alpine who offered him a multi year f1 deal

[SmallSoldier]

Am I the only worried that something existential is going on behind the scenes at alpine.
Within a day 2 deals that where all but signed blow up and a 2x time world champion moves to a back marker team voluntarily and the hottest young prospect in f1 decided to completely burn all bridges with alpine who offered him a multi year f1 deal

The only thing happening at Alpine is that there is way too much ego at play… They thought they hold all the cards and they found out that they don’t the hard way.

They thought they could strong arm Alonso… Rossi not so long ago went out and made statements about Alonso driven for them in 2023 and then moving to WEC, in a nutshell declaring that Alonso they were retiring Alonso from Formula 1 next year… Which clearly didn’t set well with Alonso, who still wanted to race in F1 for longer than 1 year… They thought they were his only option and clearly it wasn’t the case.

They then thought they had a hold on Piastri, apparently they had a contract with clauses that ended the 31st of July and thought that they didn’t need to worry about him… Apparently offering him in loan to Williams which Piastri apparently didn’t want (how to blame him after what happened to Pascal Wehrlein, who after racing in back markers ended up losing all the credit he came into F1 with) and then letting that deadline pass and then trying to guilt trip him or shame him by acting like victims (look at how much we have invested in him!) and then announcing him as your driver when you haven’t finalized anything with him or even agreeing to a salary as “F1 driver” which would probably be very different (and with at least an additional 0) than his payment as reserve driver.

[SchuMassa]

I think Alpine have other plans. Alonso is good, but Ocon has the measure of him in most situations and shows more pace. They may well have another experienced driver to fill the gap and not go with the obvious move.

The environment at AM is meant to be toxic, it’s probably a reason why Vettel left. Alonso going there could be very explosive.

Agreed.
Everytime Alonso leaves a team
He leaves on a bitter note. Only Ferrari was not bad. But his supporters always demonize the teams Alonso leaves. They need to ask themselvea why Alonso has driven for almost as many teams as there are on the grid. The problem is not the teams, the problem is Alonso.
Alpine will have a simply lovely 2023.
Alonso will struggle at Aston Martin, then leave them with Bitterness after Lance stroll starts outqualifying him. Then his fans will demonize the team again.
He doesnt deserve any more respect than another driver. His last championship was almost 20 years ago. Ocon has every right to drive him hard but fair. And so far Ocon has more points for the second year running.
Alonso is leaving because he cannot take another loss to ocon.

Alonso did outscore Ocon in 2021, and is not doing any worse than him this year either. Yes, he is behind in points - but anyone who does follow the races knows the reasons for it. Some are indeed driver related (e.g. overly agressive driving in Miami), but mostly, he's been hampered by awful reliability. If anyone here said that LH was a worse driver than GR just because he is behind in his points, you'd be the first one tearing their head off. But most people here can and also want to judge matters objectively, I hope.

Ocon has every right to drive him hard but fair.

The problem is, Ocon seems to race his own teammate harder than anyone else on the grid (see Jeddah, Hungaroring). Might be a coincidence, but I haven't seen him being half as feisty against anyone else. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[JPower]

The problem is, Ocon seems to race his own teammate harder than anyone else on the grid (see Jeddah, Hungaroring). Might be a coincidence, but I haven't seen him being half as feisty against anyone else. Feel free to prove me wrong.

He almost ran Hamilton into the wall at Monaco. He's got a pretty simple playbook when going wheel to wheel.

[diffuser]

Just because there are two options (a rookie excelling or struggling), doesn't make it a 50% (or less!) probability of excelling.

Alpine will have Piastri's data to guide their view on the probability of Piastri's driving being competent and Piastri has (as permitted) been testing the older-generation Alpines which presumably have similar driving characteristics to the new-generation one.

Name the last rookie that didn't struggle in his first year besides Hamilton. Example, Norris had half the points that Sainz had in 2019. Then count all the ones that did and of those how few were still driving in F1 at 30.

Are we only considering the points at the end of the season to determine whether a rookie “struggled” in his first season? That’s valid, although a myopic way of analyzing their performance over a season… Even though Lando did in fact achieved half the points as Sainz, Lando’s average finishing position in 2019 was 7.82 while Carlos’ was 9.41 or when DNF’s happened (in a car that has its performance swing from race to race, if you DNF in a race where the car had pace instead of one where it struggled, it will have a major impact on the points).

I don’t think Lando struggled in his maiden season in F1, for a Rookie it was a solid season and showed a lot of speed, been dead even in terms of qualifying with 10 races each been ahead of the other.

He struggled compared to Lando today.

[SmallSoldier]

Name the last rookie that didn't struggle in his first year besides Hamilton. Example, Norris had half the points that Sainz had in 2019. Then count all the ones that did and of those how few were still driving in F1 at 30.

Are we only considering the points at the end of the season to determine whether a rookie “struggled” in his first season? That’s valid, although a myopic way of analyzing their performance over a season… Even though Lando did in fact achieved half the points as Sainz, Lando’s average finishing position in 2019 was 7.82 while Carlos’ was 9.41 or when DNF’s happened (in a car that has its performance swing from race to race, if you DNF in a race where the car had pace instead of one where it struggled, it will have a major impact on the points).

I don’t think Lando struggled in his maiden season in F1, for a Rookie it was a solid season and showed a lot of speed, been dead even in terms of qualifying with 10 races each been ahead of the other.

He struggled compared to Lando today.

Well, if 2022 Lando wouldn’t be better than 2019 Lando, that would be an issue… I would argue that looking good in a good car is easier than looking good in a midfield or back of the field car… Hamilton in a Championship capable car is not comparable to Lando in an MCL34, or Charles in a Sauber or George in a Williams or Max in a Toro Rosso.

But at the end is a matter of opinion, I personally don’t think that Lando struggled in his first season in F1, I actually believe that he did amazing given the dynamics around that season and with a very solid driver as a partner (unlike George going against Kubica or Latiffi for example or Charles against Ericsson).

[diffuser]

Just because there are two options (a rookie excelling or struggling), doesn't make it a 50% (or less!) probability of excelling.

Alpine will have Piastri's data to guide their view on the probability of Piastri's driving being competent and Piastri has (as permitted) been testing the older-generation Alpines which presumably have similar driving characteristics to the new-generation one.

Name the last rookie that didn't struggle in his first year besides Hamilton. Example, Norris had half the points that Sainz had in 2019. Then count all the ones that did and of those how few were still driving in F1 at 30.

Are we only considering the points at the end of the season to determine whether a rookie “struggled” in his first season? That’s valid, although a myopic way of analyzing their performance over a season… Even though Lando did in fact achieved half the points as Sainz, Lando’s average finishing position in 2019 was 7.82 while Carlos’ was 9.41 or when DNF’s happened (in a car that has its performance swing from race to race, if you DNF in a race where the car had pace instead of one where it struggled, it will have a major impact on the points).

I don’t think Lando struggled in his maiden season in F1, for a Rookie it was a solid season and showed a lot of speed, been dead even in terms of qualifying with 10 races each been ahead of the other.

He struggled compared to Lando today. My point was, even if this guy is the next Lando it took Lando a couple of years to be the driver he is today. Plus Lando had this great supportive relationship with Sainz, not sure it will be the same with Ocon.

[SmallSoldier]

Name the last rookie that didn't struggle in his first year besides Hamilton. Example, Norris had half the points that Sainz had in 2019. Then count all the ones that did and of those how few were still driving in F1 at 30.

Are we only considering the points at the end of the season to determine whether a rookie “struggled” in his first season? That’s valid, although a myopic way of analyzing their performance over a season… Even though Lando did in fact achieved half the points as Sainz, Lando’s average finishing position in 2019 was 7.82 while Carlos’ was 9.41 or when DNF’s happened (in a car that has its performance swing from race to race, if you DNF in a race where the car had pace instead of one where it struggled, it will have a major impact on the points).

I don’t think Lando struggled in his maiden season in F1, for a Rookie it was a solid season and showed a lot of speed, been dead even in terms of qualifying with 10 races each been ahead of the other.

He struggled compared to Lando today. My point was, even if this guy is the next Lando it took Lando a couple of years to be the driver he is today. Plus Lando had this great supportive relationship with Sainz, not sure it will be the same with Ocon.

Well… Hamilton after 4 season was also different, Max is still growing as a driver (this may be his best season ever in terms of driving / maturity)… It is undeniable that every driver will grow with Experience / Mileage / Maturity.

I will agree that Ocon may not be as supportive as Carlos, but have a feeling that Lando could play Carlos role for Oscar.