2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[Just_a_fan]

No they don’t. Bottas was as much an also run as Perez is. Gasly, Albon were as much a viable talent as Russell is and Ricciardo wasn’t worse than Rosberg.

Horner has been public on a number of occasions saying that they don't care about the constructor title. It's a simple fact that they prioritise one driver.

I thought you said Horners' claim that redbull believes to be within budget cap was false.

Ah, so because he might be lying about one thing means everything he says is a lie?

What a strange idea.

[mwillems]

Despite what we think and some would like, imagine the result of DSQ or heavy points removal on the championship and what happened at the time and would need to be redressed.

There were books printed that have wrong information, it happens.
The teams were allocated cash and allowances relative to their position, all of which would be incorrect. Money they did not get and resources such as tunnel time they did, and no way can they be returned or caught up.

Sponsors probably paid out bonuses on finishing position, will they top up to meet the new positions (Erm, probably not)

Now the real can of worms.

How many people placed bets on either Max or Lewis being champion, drivers or teams final positions etc.

OK, everyone we paid out as Max for Champ, please pop along to the local office and return the payment in error ( Yeh, the queue will be forming early in the in the morning (Not again))

Then what about those who had money on Lewis winning? (join the same queue?)

It is just not going to happen is it?

They dont use them as excuses in other sports to allow cheaters/ rule breakers to have titles, in fact, most sports are pretty strict with protecting it. Redbull having to answer to its sponsors and so on if nothing at all to do with the FIA, they should have made sure they stayed with in budget.

I doubt Max will lose any titles because of the uproar and stink and the fact it will further polarise the sport which to be fair, no one wants. RB may lose this years constructors title though and that may be on the table I suppose but I still doubt that.

The stink with last year has largely been dealt with and the aftershocks (of which this is one) are all manageable. If I was the FIA I wouldn't go through all of that again, and not with the particular fanatic Max supporters!

[chrisc90]

They could only lose this years constructors if they had a overspend in 2022 - this year

[Mosin123]

Despite what we think and some would like, imagine the result of DSQ or heavy points removal on the championship and what happened at the time and would need to be redressed.

There were books printed that have wrong information, it happens.
The teams were allocated cash and allowances relative to their position, all of which would be incorrect. Money they did not get and resources such as tunnel time they did, and no way can they be returned or caught up.

Sponsors probably paid out bonuses on finishing position, will they top up to meet the new positions (Erm, probably not)

Now the real can of worms.

How many people placed bets on either Max or Lewis being champion, drivers or teams final positions etc.

OK, everyone we paid out as Max for Champ, please pop along to the local office and return the payment in error ( Yeh, the queue will be forming early in the in the morning (Not again))

Then what about those who had money on Lewis winning? (join the same queue?)

It is just not going to happen is it?

They dont use them as excuses in other sports to allow cheaters/ rule breakers to have titles, in fact, most sports are pretty strict with protecting it. Redbull having to answer to its sponsors and so on if nothing at all to do with the FIA, they should have made sure they stayed with in budget.

I doubt Max will lose any titles because of the uproar and stink and the fact it will further polarise the sport which to be fair, no one wants. RB may lose this years constructors title though and that may be on the table I suppose but I still doubt that.

The stink with last year has largely been dealt with and the aftershocks (of which this is one) are all manageable. If I was the FIA I wouldn't go through all of that again, and not with the particular fanatic Max supporters!

The after shocks of last year are still going round and no body has moved on, the fia came to a decision only max fans agree with, no nuetral fan i know believes LH shouldn't have last years title, only redbull / max fans, if you think all is ok when only 1 party is happy with the outcome i guess we have different interpretations of ok..

Near enough every controversial thing is f1 is never forgotten. Maradona hand of god is still talked about like it happened last year and that happened like 80 odd years ago.

No body at all complained when lanve Armstrong was stripped of not one title, but 7. Every body but lance was happy..

No body cared when juve got relegation and or prevented from gaining promotion for 2 seasons because they got caught match fixing.

No body cared when derby county broke financial fair play rules and was docked points and relegated.

No body ever complained in its 2, thousand odd years of cheaters being punished in the Olympics...

No body cares when southampton fc got relegated twice and started on (20 points for breaching financial fair play rules.

No body complained when chelsea was banned from signing playera for breaking rules.

No body cared when liverpool broke youth players transfer rules and got banned.

No body complained when Rivaldo was banned from international football for play acting and getting a player sent off in the world cup.

The only time any body complains is when offenders are not appropriately punished.

[mwillems]

They dont use them as excuses in other sports to allow cheaters/ rule breakers to have titles, in fact, most sports are pretty strict with protecting it. Redbull having to answer to its sponsors and so on if nothing at all to do with the FIA, they should have made sure they stayed with in budget.

I doubt Max will lose any titles because of the uproar and stink and the fact it will further polarise the sport which to be fair, no one wants. RB may lose this years constructors title though and that may be on the table I suppose but I still doubt that.

The stink with last year has largely been dealt with and the aftershocks (of which this is one) are all manageable. If I was the FIA I wouldn't go through all of that again, and not with the particular fanatic Max supporters!

The after shocks of last year are still going round and no body has moved on, the fia came to a decision only max fans agree with, no nuetral fan i know believes LH shouldn't have last years title, only redbull / max fans, if you think all is ok when only 1 party is happy with the outcome i guess we have different interpretations of ok..

Near enough every controversial thing is f1 is never forgotten. Maradona hand of god is still talked about like it happened last year and that happened like 80 odd years ago.

No body at all complained when lanve Armstrong was stripped of not one title, but 7. Every body but lance was happy..

No body cared when juve got relegation and or prevented from gaining promotion for 2 seasons because they got caught match fixing.

No body cared when derby county broke financial fair play rules and was docked points and relegated.

No body ever complained in its 2, thousand odd years of cheaters being punished in the Olympics...

No body cares when southampton fc got relegated twice and started on (20 points for breaching financial fair play rules.

No body complained when chelsea was banned from signing playera for breaking rules.

No body cared when liverpool broke youth players transfer rules and got banned.

No body complained when Rivaldo was banned from international football for play acting and getting a player sent off in the world cup.

The only time any body complains is when offenders are not appropriately punished.

Aftershocks are still going round, but if we give the title to Ham we are triggering another earthquake.

[Stu]

It's less hollow than one won by cheating, sorry, dubious book-keeping, or official manipulation, sorry, incompetent application of the rules. Wouldn't you say?

Thank you for proving my point, you win a prize!!
George Russell could still be in the running for 2022 WDC

If you were to put odds on either of these outcomes, what do you think they would be??

I'm just trying to gauge your sanity

Neither probable, both possible.

We have seen drivers excluded from results for a whole season in the past.
We have seen teams excluded (and fined) in the past.
Both of these were for ‘Sporting’ infractions.

If RedBull are retrospectively DSQ’d from 2021 results (when the breach occurred), LH will be presented with a glorious 8th WDC.
If they apply the same penalty to this season there are only 40 points or so between GR and CL.
Reworking for new points allocations is something that the FIA avoided in 1997 with Schumacher (the team kept their points) and in 2007 with McLaren (the driver’s kept their points).
The FIA have no form for ‘sensible’ outcomes & to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes “once you have excluded all logical possibilities the improbable is all that is left”

[littlebigcat]

Aftershocks are still going round, but if we give the title to Ham we are triggering another earthquake.

Only if it’s not plainly simply by explaining the rules.

The rider who won the Tour after Armstrong’s 7th was another American, Floyd Landis. Months after the Tour had been finished he returned a positive for EPO for one of the stages at the Tour, the decisive one that created his overall victory.

He cheated, it was discovered after the race, he was banned and the win was handed to the person who finished 2nd. Clear in the rules.

Landis then went on to finally start the process that got Armstrong stripped of his titles. But it was so later those Tours officially have no winners now.

[Mosin123]

I doubt Max will lose any titles because of the uproar and stink and the fact it will further polarise the sport which to be fair, no one wants. RB may lose this years constructors title though and that may be on the table I suppose but I still doubt that.

The stink with last year has largely been dealt with and the aftershocks (of which this is one) are all manageable. If I was the FIA I wouldn't go through all of that again, and not with the particular fanatic Max supporters!

The after shocks of last year are still going round and no body has moved on, the fia came to a decision only max fans agree with, no nuetral fan i know believes LH shouldn't have last years title, only redbull / max fans, if you think all is ok when only 1 party is happy with the outcome i guess we have different interpretations of ok..

Near enough every controversial thing is f1 is never forgotten. Maradona hand of god is still talked about like it happened last year and that happened like 80 odd years ago.

No body at all complained when lanve Armstrong was stripped of not one title, but 7. Every body but lance was happy..

No body cared when juve got relegation and or prevented from gaining promotion for 2 seasons because they got caught match fixing.

No body cared when derby county broke financial fair play rules and was docked points and relegated.

No body ever complained in its 2, thousand odd years of cheaters being punished in the Olympics...

No body cares when southampton fc got relegated twice and started on (20 points for breaching financial fair play rules.

No body complained when chelsea was banned from signing playera for breaking rules.

No body cared when liverpool broke youth players transfer rules and got banned.

No body complained when Rivaldo was banned from international football for play acting and getting a player sent off in the world cup.

The only time any body complains is when offenders are not appropriately punished.

Aftershocks are still going round, but if we give the title to Ham we are triggering another earthquake.

I Dont agree lh should be given the title, i think the tour de france approach is better, i also doubt lh would take it. But the punishment needs to span last year and this year and next year, cant write all 3 off before 2 have been completed / started, better to dock points / dq, but for last year? .. I honestly dont know, but no title should be award to drivers whos team have cheated to keep hold of such driver and to win a drivers championship.

This for me is wrong and sets a bad example to kids who should be taught to be professional and compete fairly not being shown cheaters win, the whole principle of cheaters getting away with cheating is disgraceful.

[Big Tea]

The only result that would sit with that is removal of the winner, and having no winner. All else stays the same. Same for team results.
This way second place is still second place, as are all the positions on down, and nothing changes except there was no champion last year.

I do not feel comfortable with that though.

Edit, it would have to be removal, as any change in points etc mean the team and driver would have to displace someone, unless they are added at the end, which is the same result to them but indicates taking part.

[dans79]

Aftershocks are still going round, but if we give the title to Ham we are triggering another earthquake.

I personally don't care, but then if it was me (Lewis or Merc), I would have taken the FIA to court if i had to, I'd burn the entire system to the ground if that's what it took!

[organic]

Direct link to AMuS:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ausnahmen/

[dans79]

Someone asked yesterday about a Horner comment about going $100,000 over budget and that possibly being significant.

But he did say this back in May at the Monaco Team principles press conference. Keep in mind this was when the budget cap was still $140M. It didn't get rasised to $144.3M untill July!

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... %20quickly

CH: Yeah, just to clear up a couple of comments have been attributed to missing races. I think what I was trying to point-out last weekend, when I was asked the question, was, it would be the equivalent of. We would have to miss numerous races to get anywhere near obviously getting costs under the cap. And I think certainly all the major teams are going to breach that that 140 count this year. Now, what we don't want to end up doing is, as Mattia has pointed out, there's a 5% threshold for a minor breach. What is the penalty for a minor breach? And what we don't want to do is end up playing a game of chicken. As to say: does he go to 4.9 over? Do we go to 4.7 over? And that would be one upgrade that could be the differentiating factor of, you know, this World Championship. So, I think what we do need is clarity, and clarity quickly.

In short Horner said $280k (0.2% of $140M) could be the difference between winning and loosing a championship!

[Wouter]

Someone asked yesterday about a Horner comment about going $100,000 over budget and that possibly being significant.

But he did say this back in May at the Monaco Team principles press conference. Keep in mind this was when the budget cap was still $140M. It didn't get rasised to $144.3M untill July!

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... %20quickly

CH: Yeah, just to clear up a couple of comments have been attributed to missing races. I think what I was trying to point-out last weekend, when I was asked the question, was, it would be the equivalent of. We would have to miss numerous races to get anywhere near obviously getting costs under the cap. And I think certainly all the major teams are going to breach that that 140 count this year. Now, what we don't want to end up doing is, as Mattia has pointed out, there's a 5% threshold for a minor breach. What is the penalty for a minor breach? And what we don't want to do is end up playing a game of chicken. As to say: does he go to 4.9 over? Do we go to 4.7 over? And that would be one upgrade that could be the differentiating factor of, you know, this World Championship. So, I think what we do need is clarity, and clarity quickly.

.
In short Horner said $280k (0.2% of $140M) could be the difference between winning and loosing a championship!

.
And what is your point? This is about 2022 due to inflation.

[dans79]

Someone asked yesterday about a Horner comment about going $100,000 over budget and that possibly being significant.

But he did say this back in May at the Monaco Team principles press conference. Keep in mind this was when the budget cap was still $140M. It didn't get rasised to $144.3M untill July!

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... %20quickly

CH: Yeah, just to clear up a couple of comments have been attributed to missing races. I think what I was trying to point-out last weekend, when I was asked the question, was, it would be the equivalent of. We would have to miss numerous races to get anywhere near obviously getting costs under the cap. And I think certainly all the major teams are going to breach that that 140 count this year. Now, what we don't want to end up doing is, as Mattia has pointed out, there's a 5% threshold for a minor breach. What is the penalty for a minor breach? And what we don't want to do is end up playing a game of chicken. As to say: does he go to 4.9 over? Do we go to 4.7 over? And that would be one upgrade that could be the differentiating factor of, you know, this World Championship. So, I think what we do need is clarity, and clarity quickly.

.
In short Horner said $280k (0.2% of $140M) could be the difference between winning and loosing a championship!

.
And what is your point? This is about 2022 due to inflation.

If $280k (0.2% of the cap) can be the difference between wining and loosing (his words not mine) then setting 5% as the minor breach limit is pure BS. Additionally their will be hell to pay if Redbull is over by a million or two.

[Just_a_fan]

Direct link to AMuS:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ausnahmen/

Catering at the track is as much marketing as feeding the staff. They could separate staff food/drink from food served to others, but it would probably cost as much as it would save.