2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[DChemTech]

The machinations and straw man arguments that the Red Bull fans are making to justify their team breaking the rules is something to behold here. Only one team got an ABA. Just let that sink in. The amount or reasoning is immaterial, only one team were punished for breaking the rules.

Of course the amount and reasoning do matter.
If a teams breaks the cost cap by $100, one cannot reasonably argue that this makes a difference on the outcome of the championship. It is still financial mismanagement that warrants a penalty, but it is very understandable that this penalty would not be the same as the one for breaking the cap by $1.000.000, or $10.000.000.

Also, the reasons do matter; it is very common in law to have the severity of the penalty depending on the reason of the 'crime'. Killing someone in self-defense may go completely unpenalized, while killing someone with pre-empted malicious intent will be penalized very harshly. In between there are all kinds of gradations: by accident, by accident but while breaking another law (e.g. speeding), unintentionally but while committing violence, in a tantrum, and so on, all affecting the severity of the penalty.

Most RB fans are not justifying the team breaking the rules. The discussion between RB and MB fans is whether the severity of the penalty fits the breach, and RB fans as well as MB fans are bringing forwards arguments to back up their viewpoint. And historical precedent can be part of that. Now, historic precedent is often brought up in an imbalanced way, and in that case it should be corrected, but 'machinations'... not really.

[MadMax]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

.
Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

He's not a moderator. He's a contributor of written articles.

[MadMax]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

Blown Diffuser was one of the best loophole designs in the history of the sport. Pushing of the flexi wing limits is not breaking them and I can totally get behind their behaviour towards Renault. Renault decided to start making engines again for marketing, they did nothing in 5 years to bridge the gap to Mercedes, leaving RB only paying for DNF's and bad design.

Non of that is scandalous

Im actually pretty shocked at your response

Blown diffusers worked so well for Red Bull because of Renault's engine. Red Bull's later public shaming of Renault when they weren't getting their way was shameful - they had been very happy take the plaudits when Renault's engine had been helping them to win.

[Wouter]

.
Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

.
He's not a moderator. He's a contributor of written articles.

.
I always thought he was a moderator in addition to being a writer. In that case, he can be as biased as he likes.

[Dee]

Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

Blown Diffuser was one of the best loophole designs in the history of the sport. Pushing of the flexi wing limits is not breaking them and I can totally get behind their behaviour towards Renault. Renault decided to start making engines again for marketing, they did nothing in 5 years to bridge the gap to Mercedes, leaving RB only paying for DNF's and bad design.

Non of that is scandalous

Im actually pretty shocked at your response

Blown diffusers worked so well for Red Bull because of Renault's engine. Red Bull's later public shaming of Renault when they weren't getting their way was shameful - they had been very happy take the plaudits when Renault's engine had been helping them to win.

Please show me where other engines at the time did not have an exhaust? because it was the exhaust from the engine that worked so well for the Blown diffuser. Renault wasn't even the best engine at the time. Newey and Co gave Renault titles.

RB only started to talk about Renault after years or bad performance.

Teams are allowed to do that.

[MadMax]

Blown Diffuser was one of the best loophole designs in the history of the sport. Pushing of the flexi wing limits is not breaking them and I can totally get behind their behaviour towards Renault. Renault decided to start making engines again for marketing, they did nothing in 5 years to bridge the gap to Mercedes, leaving RB only paying for DNF's and bad design.

Non of that is scandalous

Im actually pretty shocked at your response

Blown diffusers worked so well for Red Bull because of Renault's engine. Red Bull's later public shaming of Renault when they weren't getting their way was shameful - they had been very happy take the plaudits when Renault's engine had been helping them to win.

Please show me where other engines at the time did not have an exhaust? because it was the exhaust from the engine that worked so well for the Blown diffuser. Renault wasn't even the best engine at the time. Newey and Co gave Renault titles.

RB only started to talk about Renault after years or bad performance.

Teams are allowed to do that.

From memory, Renault managed to get the best cold blowing of the diffuser. The details are hazy as it's a while ago now. Newey originally wanted the Renault unit because it was compact and had very good thermal properties which suited his shrink-wrapped design ethos at the time - compare the Red Bulls to everyone else and they look like micropods in comparison with every other car.

Yes, RB only talked about Renault when they were struggling, not when they were winning. When they were winning it was "we're great", when losing it was "Renault are rubbish". That's not a great way to get someone to work harder for you. Would you work harder if your boss kept publicly telling everyone you were rubbish? I wouldn't.

[MadMax]

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

.
He's not a moderator. He's a contributor of written articles.

.
I always thought he was a moderator in addition to being a writer. In that case, he can be as biased as he likes.

The other CFD project author is a moderator - probably why it's confused people.

[FW17]

Renault and Honda did a poor job, one gets slated for bad performance, other one gets by on blown diffuser success.

[f1jcw]

.
Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

He's not a moderator. He's a contributor of written articles.

Since when did being impartial mean that you have to ignore facts?
So to be impartial now is actually now to be BIASED towards a team that has broken rules.

Modern times eh

[Dee]

Blown diffusers worked so well for Red Bull because of Renault's engine. Red Bull's later public shaming of Renault when they weren't getting their way was shameful - they had been very happy take the plaudits when Renault's engine had been helping them to win.

Please show me where other engines at the time did not have an exhaust? because it was the exhaust from the engine that worked so well for the Blown diffuser. Renault wasn't even the best engine at the time. Newey and Co gave Renault titles.

RB only started to talk about Renault after years or bad performance.

Teams are allowed to do that.

From memory, Renault managed to get the best cold blowing of the diffuser. The details are hazy as it's a while ago now. Newey originally wanted the Renault unit because it was compact and had very good thermal properties which suited his shrink-wrapped design ethos at the time - compare the Red Bulls to everyone else and they look like micropods in comparison with every other car.

Yes, RB only talked about Renault when they were struggling, not when they were winning. When they were winning it was "we're great", when losing it was "Renault are rubbish". That's not a great way to get someone to work harder for you. Would you work harder if your boss kept publicly telling everyone you were rubbish? I wouldn't.

You get bad performance reports when you don't do well. Renault were bad from 2014 until 2018 and they still are now. Its the reason why no other team on the grid carries their engines atm.

[turbof1]

Never understood he was a moderator! Lol
Seemed like a random dude desperately trying to come across as knowledgeable...

Because he is not a moderator, but a writer.

Absolute geniuses here "he is a moderator and he is not impartial! SEE?!? Murder!" while he is not a moderator.

He has the right on his own opinion.

[lio007]

Dear mods, what do the last couple of pages contribute to a 2021 cost cap rumours and speculation-thread?

As everything is now public, what's still the reason for this thread?

[f1jcw]

I read a good point on another forum, I will summerise

The penalty they have got is applied to the 3rd season after the office.
So they can overspend and gain in one year, that gain carrys on in multuple years but they are only penalised in one occurance.
The budget has not be changed either.

[f1jcw]

Dear mods, what do the last couple of pages contribute to a 2021 cost cap rumours and speculation-thread?

As everything is now public, what's still the reason for this thread?

You do not have to enter the thread and read it.

What is it with the way to deal with fraudulent behavour by trying to censor it.
Redbull themselves have tried it with SKY.

[SiLo]

It's more of a decision discussion thread now so should be kept open, but all this talk of Renault engines is a bit odd. Mods, can you just delete it please?