2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[dans79]

And the only result that should be discussed is the final finishing position. Everything else is irrelevant.

Sorry man, but that's a very poor argument for this forum. That only works on someplace like social media or reddit. The only time it get's used here, is when someone is being lazy, or the numbers happened to line up with there personal agenda.

[harty71]

And the only result that should be discussed is the final finishing position. Everything else is irrelevant.

Sorry man, but that's a very poor argument for this forum. That only works on someplace like social media or reddit. The only time it get's used here, is when someone is being lazy, or the numbers happened to line up with there personal agenda.

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

[Tvetovnato]

I don't know how anyone could have watched this entire season and decide that Russell outperformed Hamilton.
There has not been one race all year where George has undoubtedly shown superior pace than Lewis. He has shown better one lap pace at times. That's about it. The race pace has been consistently in Hamilton's favor.
Even if we do not fall for the experiments excuse, the way Russell won some races earlier in the season was due to pure luck where Hamilton was ahead and a safety car bailed Russell out.
But there have certainly been occasions where Lewis has been in another league in terms of race pace. Enter Spain, Hungary and Canada.
While there has not been one race all year where Russell has looked dominant over Hamilton. He is sometimes equal, but most of the time he has been slower.
The only one that looked like Russell was much faster was Imola, but Lewis was stuck in a DRS train and chose not to risk the pass, because at that point of the season he certainly felt they needed the lap data, so completing the race distance was the priority. While Russell was his agressive self and got by the slower cars with some bold moves and had a great result. He did have to hold on for dear life when a charging Bottas was catching him towards the end though. Suggesting to me at least that his pace overall was not that great on that occasion. A Merc should not have been threatened by an Alfa Romeo.
Russell definitely has been able to string up some strong results, but he has also shown a propensity to throw it away. Let's not kid ourselves, he's had trouble at the start of races, and even before this weekend his race craft was being questioned.
I would agree that it is true that if a title is on the line Lewis historically ups his game. Whenever his back is against the wall he has shown to up his level. Just look at the end of the 2014, 2016 and 2021 seasons as prime examples. Conversely when he is not in contention or the title has already been decided he has a tendency to let his foot off the gas; See 2013, 2015, when he was mediocre by his standards to end those seasons.
Can Russell beat Hamilton next year if the car is championship worthy? Yes, of course. Anything can happen, especially if reliability is a factor . Also Lewis is not getting any younger and he may start to lose it a little bit, but I have not seen anything this year that suggests he is going to fall off. He is still one of the very best drivers in F1. But sometimes luck trumps all those things. I think it's going to be a very exciting season in F1 next year even with the other teams as it looks like Max just created an intra team rivalry so I'll have my popcorn ready.

Russell was clearly faster in Imola, Saudi, Spain and Monaco. Arguably Brazil

You're forgetting Mexico, he had better tyre management and was gaining on Hamilton before Hamilton boxed to cover Perez, in situations like that just before a stop you see the true pace.

And Hamilton had engine issues in both qualifying and race in Mexico, which affected his pace as confirmed by the team. And on and on it goes.

[101FlyingDutchman]

What utterly pointless drivel

You’ll never come to any absolute statement as it’s all subjective.

[dans79]

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

[harty71]

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

[Tvetovnato]

And the only result that should be discussed is the final finishing position. Everything else is irrelevant.

Sorry man, but that's a very poor argument for this forum. That only works on someplace like social media or reddit. The only time it get's used here, is when someone is being lazy, or the numbers happened to line up with there personal agenda.

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No one is saying that. The result is still the result, but there are always factors explaining the results, hence the discussions.

By your reasoning, together with Chris and other people who are here purely to discredit Hamilton, one can then say that Irvine was better than Schumacher in 1999. Fact. He had better results. More points. Alonso as a driver was better than Raikkonen in 2005. He had more points. End of story.

[Tvetovnato]

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

Who said he has? All drivers are different, and someone is bound to be better than Bottas and Rosberg eventually. Russell was recruited to be a championship winner, not a second fiddle. Lauda and Wolff saw those qualities and chose him, and they were most likely right. So if Hamilton is only ”slightly” faster, there is no reason to discredit him like you do.

[AeroDynamic]

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

Are you basically venting in this thread that Hamilton isn’t great enough for you?

[SiLo]

If Hamilton hadn't had broken protocol in Hungary, Alonso would have kept his head and held on to pole.

This was actually caused by Alonso backing Hamilton into Kimi prior to Lewis refusing to swap positions. Alonso did this of his own accord, found himself on the end of some reciprocation and then took it too far.

George has been more consistent this year, especially at the beginning of the year where he gained most of his points over Lewis. Really there's nothing much to take away from this year for their peformances when the car was clearly struggling with major issues, both drivers were experimenting with setups and there was some safety car luck involved.


I think the team will just be happy that they were fighting for wins at three races this year potentially, or at least close enough to make other teams consider different strategies and worry about them, especially considering where they were at the beginning of the season.

[SiLo]

I'm sorry, should we ignore the results and start a context world championship?

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

So you admit that Lewis has been generally faster at most races and in a few significantly faster? I'm confused as to what you're getting at here. Help me understand.

[harty71]

No, but if someone wants to be taken seriously as a fan of the sport, then they should show they understand the sport better than what they can find in 30 seconds via wikipedia.

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

So you admit that Lewis has been generally faster at most races and in a few significantly faster? I'm confused as to what you're getting at here. Help me understand.

He's been faster in most races by a hairs breadth, others he's been a little faster and others he's been slower.

It's funny how Hamilton fans ignore the context when one is faster than the other, take for example Spain, they were on completely different strategies, Russell was battling the RB's for the win whilst Hamilton was having a recovery drive.

What has been apparent is Russell hasn't had any nightmare races where he's been lost and way out of position. Both drivers have made more mistakes than they should have mind.

[SiLo]

I've watched every race diligently, Hamilton has been slightly faster for most of the races but the key word here is slightly.

There's only been a couple of races where he's been clearly faster but again, it's all about the context, he's never been close to having the pace advantage that he often had over Bottas or Rosberg for that matter.

So you admit that Lewis has been generally faster at most races and in a few significantly faster? I'm confused as to what you're getting at here. Help me understand.

He's been faster in most races by a hairs breadth, others he's been a little faster and others he's been slower.

It's funny how Hamilton fans ignore the context when one is faster than the other, take for example Spain, they were on completely different strategies, Russell was battling the RB's for the win whilst Hamilton was having a recovery drive.

What has been apparent is Russell hasn't had any nightmare races where he's been lost and way out of position. Both drivers have made more mistakes than they should have mind.

How am I ignoring context, you literally use Spain as an example and then provide context of Lewis getting punted by an aggressive KMag to ruin his race. His pace after that was vastly superior to Russell. He had a front tire puncture and was almost a minute behind after lap 2. Yet he finished only 20 seconds behind at the end of the race.

https://pitwall.app/analysis/compare-la ... 20&button=

[harty71]

So you admit that Lewis has been generally faster at most races and in a few significantly faster? I'm confused as to what you're getting at here. Help me understand.

He's been faster in most races by a hairs breadth, others he's been a little faster and others he's been slower.

It's funny how Hamilton fans ignore the context when one is faster than the other, take for example Spain, they were on completely different strategies, Russell was battling the RB's for the win whilst Hamilton was having a recovery drive.

What has been apparent is Russell hasn't had any nightmare races where he's been lost and way out of position. Both drivers have made more mistakes than they should have mind.

How am I ignoring context, you literally use Spain as an example and then provide context of Lewis getting punted by an aggressive KMag to ruin his race. His pace after that was vastly superior to Russell. He had a front tire puncture and was almost a minute behind after lap 2. Yet he finished only 20 seconds behind at the end of the race.

https://pitwall.app/analysis/compare-la ... 20&button=

No, it really wasn't, his stint after coming in for the puncture wasn't anything to write home about.

So, tell me, where's all these races where he was substantially faster than Russell?

[PlatinumZealot]

To change gears a bit. If the 2023 Mercedes is a championship contender can we say that Lewis has developed a championship car from a dog at least twice in his career?