2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[chrisc90]

Didnt Toto say in media interviews trackside in the last few races that they knew where their design had failed them and the direction they had took for next season (2023)?

Early January they were saying the car loos identical to the W13 in the wind tunnel, but with a whole new aero map.

Now 5 weeks down the line its seems the tables have turned on their heads at Merc.

[Venturiation]

Didnt Toto say in media interviews trackside in the last few races that they knew where their design had failed them and the direction they had took for next season (2023)?

Early January they were saying the car loos identical to the W13 in the wind tunnel, but with a whole new aero map.

Now 5 weeks down the line its seems the tables have turned on their heads at Merc.

that was before the winter break and news sites keep making the same "new articles" with old stuff

[etusch]

It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.

It is unusual because generally they were starting season with big gap to rivals. They were no need to develop their cars season long. They were able to concentrate the car of next season. Now even if there is not a design change, they have to work like other teams.

[etusch]

Didnt Toto say in media interviews trackside in the last few races that they knew where their design had failed them and the direction they had took for next season (2023)?

Early January they were saying the car loos identical to the W13 in the wind tunnel, but with a whole new aero map.

Now 5 weeks down the line its seems the tables have turned on their heads at Merc.

I remember a word of Toto before a season that says they had issues with the engine. Then an engineer said there is no problem, he just got it wrong.

[chrisc90]

Didnt Toto say in media interviews trackside in the last few races that they knew where their design had failed them and the direction they had took for next season (2023)?

Early January they were saying the car loos identical to the W13 in the wind tunnel, but with a whole new aero map.

Now 5 weeks down the line its seems the tables have turned on their heads at Merc.

that was before the winter break and news sites keep making the same "new articles" with old stuff

But if Toto was saying that their direction was decided before the end of last season, and now they appear to be in a huge predicament with overtime, drivers not seeming fully happy and possible delays, then something has to have changed or gone on.

If they understood the car in early January, which looked identical visually to last year, then what has changed in the 5 weeks to throw a huge panic reported out in the media?? Do you think they will have vastly changed their concept with 5-7weeks until 1st test and effectively the start of the season? Seems a bit unplausible if you ask me.

[Venturiation]

Of course it’s possible but we don’t know until the season starts
You have horner and marko saying nonsense all the time it’s the same situation

[Cs98]

It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.

The question I have re-Merc and the new regulations is whether they can seal that new floor edge. It seems like every car we've seen so far has opted for an even bulkier sidepod because they need that outwash to seal the higher floor edge. The question is how Merc will accomplish the same effect without a sidepod.

[Cs98]

It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.

It is unusual because generally they were starting season with big gap to rivals. They were no need to develop their cars season long. They were able to concentrate the car of next season. Now even if there is not a design change, they have to work like other teams.

Out of the top 3 teams Merc certainly maintained development on the 2022 car for the longest. They were still bringing packages as late as Austin, whereas RB basically cancelled everything once they realized they had it in the bag at Spa.

[chrisc90]

It was mentioned in that article that there was a late design change.

It's like we entered a parallel universe where Mercedes is running right up to the wire, and Red Bull have already done their shakedown. Normally it's the other way around.

A late build like this is highly unusual for Mercedes.

It is unusual because generally they were starting season with big gap to rivals. They were no need to develop their cars season long. They were able to concentrate the car of next season. Now even if there is not a design change, they have to work like other teams.

Out of the top 3 teams Merc certainly maintained development on the 2022 car for the longest. They were still bringing packages as late as Austin, whereas RB basically cancelled everything once they realized they had it in the bag at Spa.

True. It could also be a indicator that they didnt fully understand the design, even so late in the season. A front wing, changes to the floor and rear wing endplates they brought to Austin (https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ed-austin/) is quite a big set of upgrades to be bringing with 4 races to go. You would have thought that time and money would have been better off developing parts/floor designs for 2023.

Put it this way, the budget cap for 2022 will be watched closely by others given upgrade packages brought etc.

[Big Tea]

Maybe they learned from last year's mistake and gave it an extra 'onceover' looking for something missed (as last year) and actually found it?
Better to find a mistake last thing than too late

[proteus]

It is unusual because generally they were starting season with big gap to rivals. They were no need to develop their cars season long. They were able to concentrate the car of next season. Now even if there is not a design change, they have to work like other teams.

Out of the top 3 teams Merc certainly maintained development on the 2022 car for the longest. They were still bringing packages as late as Austin, whereas RB basically cancelled everything once they realized they had it in the bag at Spa.

True. It could also be a indicator that they didnt fully understand the design, even so late in the season. A front wing, changes to the floor and rear wing endplates they brought to Austin (https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ed-austin/) is quite a big set of upgrades to be bringing with 4 races to go. You would have thought that time and money would have been better off developing parts/floor designs for 2023.

Put it this way, the budget cap for 2022 will be watched closely by others given upgrade packages brought etc.

Everything they brought in 2022 is very relevant to 2023. What is even better for them is that they were able to run it on the track. Their main problem was that they got the car wrong at the start, but from the moment they knew they cant compete for championship they shifted all of their focus into rectifying problems of their car and this was an investement for 2023. I do wonder what went so wrong to make them being late though? Have they lost too many capable minds and hands in the last few seasons to other teams? All will be clear in first few races i suppose.

[chrisc90]

I guess it depends what upgrades they brought to the floor. Given its such a sensitive area then throwing a lot of resource into a 2022 floor when the 2023 floor is quite a bit different then does seem a odd thing to focus on. ( I wonder if there's a timeline for teams and what upgrades they brought to the races in one spot)

We shall certainly see in the first few races where they are at for 2023.

[Cs98]

Out of the top 3 teams Merc certainly maintained development on the 2022 car for the longest. They were still bringing packages as late as Austin, whereas RB basically cancelled everything once they realized they had it in the bag at Spa.

True. It could also be a indicator that they didnt fully understand the design, even so late in the season. A front wing, changes to the floor and rear wing endplates they brought to Austin (https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ed-austin/) is quite a big set of upgrades to be bringing with 4 races to go. You would have thought that time and money would have been better off developing parts/floor designs for 2023.

Put it this way, the budget cap for 2022 will be watched closely by others given upgrade packages brought etc.

Everything they brought in 2022 is very relevant to 2023. What is even better for them is that they were able to run it on the track. Their main problem was that they got the car wrong at the start, but from the moment they knew they cant compete for championship they shifted all of their focus into rectifying problems of their car and this was an investement for 2023. I do wonder what went so wrong to make them being late though? Have they lost too many capable minds and hands in the last few seasons to other teams? All will be clear in first few races i suppose.

We don't know that. It depends on how much of a departure the 2023 car is from 2022. Many changes will surely be forced simply due to the changing regulations. For example the floor and their front wing (which was part of their final upgrade package). And if the rumours that they are making substantial changes this late for 2023 are true, then how relevant can those 2022 upgrades really be?

[etusch]

Out of the top 3 teams Merc certainly maintained development on the 2022 car for the longest. They were still bringing packages as late as Austin, whereas RB basically cancelled everything once they realized they had it in the bag at Spa.

True. It could also be a indicator that they didnt fully understand the design, even so late in the season. A front wing, changes to the floor and rear wing endplates they brought to Austin (https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ed-austin/) is quite a big set of upgrades to be bringing with 4 races to go. You would have thought that time and money would have been better off developing parts/floor designs for 2023.

Put it this way, the budget cap for 2022 will be watched closely by others given upgrade packages brought etc.

Everything they brought in 2022 is very relevant to 2023. What is even better for them is that they were able to run it on the track. Their main problem was that they got the car wrong at the start, but from the moment they knew they cant compete for championship they shifted all of their focus into rectifying problems of their car and this was an investement for 2023. I do wonder what went so wrong to make them being late though? Have they lost too many capable minds and hands in the last few seasons to other teams? All will be clear in first few races i suppose.

You found out that your concept is wrong and doesn't work. Your car is not fast. You are trying to find out what is wrong but cannot find, at least until the last part of season.
You have 2 teams.
One works for current car, they are in mentioned situation.
Second works for next year's car. So work on what? This is very very bad situation.

[atanatizante]

How reliable is this site or the author which is mentioning that "Mercedes W14: Possible double-digit horsepower gain, though difficult to compare against rival teams"?

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-si ... d-in-2023/

Now that we know that fuel could not be updated until 2026 and even via reliability reasons it`s hard to conceive that the power increase of some say 10HP could be done only through software/mapping upgrades ...

Maybe this power increase is coming from a new mapping which is now harvesting more energy via MGU-H, or possibly this power boost was coz they were running last year slightly detuned due to porpoising/bouncing inducing effects to ICE both structural integrity and functionality?