2023 Alpine F1 Team

[diffuser]

Do you think Ocon will clean up his famous random Q1 knockouts?

I read a quote from last week where he said he didn't think he had to...

[Spoutnik]

Quick translation
- The car finished +80 seconds behind Verstappen in Spain, despite Russell blocking Verstappen for a few laps
- In Austria the gap fall under +68 seconds
- At Abu Dhabi, despite Ocon losing race time the gap falled to 57 seconds

This is an incredible spin of events (not to be negative....)

Austria is a high altitude circuit where RB struggled. Ocon and Alonso stopped two times. The winning Ferrari stopped 3 times and had mechanical issues the final laps of a race which included a safety car. Alpine would have finished much further behind otherwise.

In Abu Dhabi? Verstappen was cruising and the RB19 had not had a consequential upgrade since Spa.


I'm just trying to say they picture they are trying to paint is deceptive and I would hope this kind of thing was only done as a positive PR piece, and does not reflect the maximum analytical capabilities of the team....

Furthermore, as a whole, different circuits as a while will have different field spread, which of course influences how far behind the slower cars are.

Would they have liked to mention Verstappen's performance in Spa?

I tried to look at much wider data and compare with the progress Aston Martin made, you can have a look
Indeed, their development rate is good, but not as fast as Aston

[AR3-GP]

@Blackout, sorry I didn't realize you had posted this. I guess I'm willing to revisit my thinking because of it (as you are a bit more credible/honest than even the team....).

Do you genuinely believe that the team got closer to the front on merit? As opposed to illusions formed by track specific, and event specific circumstances like I mentioned in the first post?

I don't doubt the car got quicker, but so did everyone else. Look at Mercedes.

[Spoutnik]

@Blackout, sorry I didn't realize you had posted this. I guess I'm willing to revisit my thinking because of it (as you are a bit more credible/honest than even the team....).

Do you genuinely believe that the team got closer to the front on merit? As opposed to illusions formed by track specific, and event specific circumstances like I mentioned in the first post?

I don't doubt the car got quicker, but so did everyone else. Look at Mercedes.

Ofc there's specific circumtances but there's a bigger picture/a trend, Aston Martin made tremendous progress in the second half of the year compared to Alpine
The trend for Alpine is to stay ~5th since 2019, they are not catching but they are catched for this year imo
All the Alpinist believe in the project, but I'm rather pessimistic

[diffuser]

I think the GAP to pole is a valid statistic at any track.

You need a certain kind of tea leaf to use race data. It's rare that cars will run every lap flat out. Some times you'll see fuel saving or brake saving with lift and coast. Races tend to end in cruise control. For example the 8th place car will start catching the 7th place car. Then the 7th place car will show a couple of laps a little faster that the 8th car could muster in his catching phase, the 8th place driver will see the writing on the wall and both cruise to the end. Other times the 7th place car has such a lead that he know's the 8th place car can't catch him and the race ends close but the 7th place car was in cruise mode for 20 laps. The gap of where they finished isn't vary realistic of the cars abilities.

[Spoutnik]

I think the GAP to pole is a valid statistic at any track.

You need a certain kind of tea leaf to use race data. It's rare that cars will run every lap flat out. Some times you'll see fuel saving or brake saving with lift and coast. Races tend to end in cruise control. For example the 8th place car will start catching the 7th place car. Then the 7th place car will show a couple of laps a little faster that the 8th car could muster in his catching phase, the 8th place driver will see the writing on the wall and both cruise to the end. Other times the 7th place car has such a lead that he know's the 8th place car can't catch him and the race ends close but the 7th place car was in cruise mode for 20 laps. The gap of where they finished isn't vary realistic of the cars abilities.

You are right, but again, there's a trend/a bigger picture. Thats why looking over a full season is interesting

[AR3-GP]

I think the GAP to pole is a valid statistic at any track.

Right but then you look at a car like the Ferrari last year and wonder why they didn't win much.

A car can be better in qualifying than it is in the race. The race is where the points are won. However as you rightly point out, race pace is like reading tea leaves at times. You don't know what strategies people are on and furthermore the guys like Alpine are not running their race to compete with Red Bull.

It's very difficult to draw meaningful conclusions other than what the actual track finishing order is.

[organic]

First update has hit the car. Go faster tape

[Sevach]

Alpine seems to run a similar amount of rake as last years RB.

[organic]

Alpine seems to run a similar amount of rake as last years RB.

It's sitting on the keel scraping it all the way down straights

[Macklaren]

Seemed like Alpine and Ferrari had the most porpoising today... Surprising

[AR3-GP]

Davidson just said on Sky that the paddock thinks Alpine are best of the rest based on GPS data.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Davidson just said on Sky that the paddock thinks Alpine are best of the rest based on GPS data.

Yep reckon they’re in no man’s land. Clear of midfield but a few tenths behind the top 6

[organic]

Davidson just said on Sky that the paddock thinks Alpine are best of the rest based on GPS data.

But now he's putting Alpine 6th fastest behind Haas?

[kediown]

Davidson just said on Sky that the paddock thinks Alpine are best of the rest based on GPS data.

But now he's putting Alpine 6th fastest behind Haas?

Based on his gut feeling. He also puts Alpha Tauri on 7th