2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[organic]

The SF23 still has an important potential to express, especially because it was very fast in terms of pure performance. Obviously, only the technicians know the work plan and how much margin they will have to fix the long run, which is not always convincing. The new rear wing mounted on Leclerc's car on the last day of testing is a clear evolution of the inherited specification and has shown the need to use a slightly different load through the main plane. The inconvenience made the technicians frown, who were counting on the opportunity to accumulate a lot of data for simulations. On the other hand, anticipating it allowed to highlight what would have been a problem in the race weekend and therefore to have more time to react, strengthening the actuator.

SF-23: the balancing problem is related to the level of load and height from the ground, aerodynamic corrections are coming.

The technicians on the track at Shakir in these three days of testing have carried out some rather extreme tests in terms of suspension stiffness, ground clearances, etc. The so-called 'scan' then began to bear fruit, suggesting what the best options are for a good basic setup to make the most of the new Ferrari SF-23. A source confirmed to us that the Ferrari SF-23 ran higher to limit harmful bouncing. Not ideal, however, the approach is rather conservative and is expected to be much more aggressive during free practice. The car can certainly be much faster than the F1-75, nevertheless it seems more difficult to bring to the limit due to an aerodynamic limitation on the front end discovered by the technicians. The car suffered from understeer, particularly with less grip due to higher track temperatures. Something unexpected that put Leclerc in more difficulty than Sainz. A limitation to be corrected for the aerodynamicists; the long chat between the Monegasque and David Sanchez concerned this discomfort.

So according to the latest article from Formu1a.uno the real issue is that the "front end of the car" didn't perform according to expectations and caused a lot of understeer, which was absolutely evident from the onboards. They also run the car higher to avoid any issues and they expect be more aggressive during the race weekend.

This doesn't bode well and gives me massive 2019 vibes. I hope they will be able to fix the unexpected issues.

Same article reports a new front wing before Melbourne and very good efficiency though so not all is lost. RB won with a car that was understeery, unsuited to Verstappen's driving style (especially at the beginning), and very efficient

[Xyz22]

The SF23 still has an important potential to express, especially because it was very fast in terms of pure performance. Obviously, only the technicians know the work plan and how much margin they will have to fix the long run, which is not always convincing. The new rear wing mounted on Leclerc's car on the last day of testing is a clear evolution of the inherited specification and has shown the need to use a slightly different load through the main plane. The inconvenience made the technicians frown, who were counting on the opportunity to accumulate a lot of data for simulations. On the other hand, anticipating it allowed to highlight what would have been a problem in the race weekend and therefore to have more time to react, strengthening the actuator.

SF-23: the balancing problem is related to the level of load and height from the ground, aerodynamic corrections are coming.

The technicians on the track at Shakir in these three days of testing have carried out some rather extreme tests in terms of suspension stiffness, ground clearances, etc. The so-called 'scan' then began to bear fruit, suggesting what the best options are for a good basic setup to make the most of the new Ferrari SF-23. A source confirmed to us that the Ferrari SF-23 ran higher to limit harmful bouncing. Not ideal, however, the approach is rather conservative and is expected to be much more aggressive during free practice. The car can certainly be much faster than the F1-75, nevertheless it seems more difficult to bring to the limit due to an aerodynamic limitation on the front end discovered by the technicians. The car suffered from understeer, particularly with less grip due to higher track temperatures. Something unexpected that put Leclerc in more difficulty than Sainz. A limitation to be corrected for the aerodynamicists; the long chat between the Monegasque and David Sanchez concerned this discomfort.

So according to the latest article from Formu1a.uno the real issue is that the "front end of the car" didn't perform according to expectations and caused a lot of understeer, which was absolutely evident from the onboards. They also run the car higher to avoid any issues and they expect be more aggressive during the race weekend.

This doesn't bode well and gives me massive 2019 vibes. I hope they will be able to fix the unexpected issues.

Same article reports a new front wing before Melbourne and very good efficiency though so not all is lost. RB won with a car that was understeery, unsuited to Verstappen's driving style (especially at the beginning), and very efficient

RB won because they had a massive advantage in the straights from race 1 of the season (on top of being a much better team overall), while the SF 23 won't have it over the RB 19, at least to the same extent. Moreover, the main issue of the RB 18 was the weight which is way easier to fix than an unexpected aero issue which involves the front end, one of the most critical area of the car.

[Vanja #66]

https://www.formu1a.uno/red-bull-ha-imp ... pricciosa/

****A source confirmed to us that the Ferrari SF-23 revved higher to limit harmful bouncing . Not ideal, however rather conservative the approach that is expected will be much more aggressive from free practice. The car can certainly be much faster than the F1-75
***
The most positive factor, on the other hand, has to do with the efficiency gain, which has been significant. According to an opposing engineer, the GPS of the Ferrari SF-23 showed that it is potentially faster than the F1-75 by 10 km/h at the same load. Contrary to 2022, it is therefore possible that we will see SF-23 in better shape in Jeddah than in Bahrain. Meanwhile, the new rear wing - with more downforce - will be available for the race weekend , the front with an updated element design expected to arrive by Melbourne

How did they manage to make understeery car with that rear wing & also the new pirellis

All that sounds too good to be true to be honest. 10km/h for same load would mean a drag reduction and efficiency improvement of about 8-9% if the power is slightly above the level in 2022 Bahrain (so the same as Barcelona). Not impossible, but quite an achievement if true!

Also, that the front wing is the limiting factor... I mean, it does make sense from a certain perspective, seeing how Sainz was OK and Leclerc not really, but that would mean massive improvements from the floor.

I don't know, too good to be true in my view. Unless RB was carrying massive sandbags, bigger than anyone anticipated, in which case they have a lot more to show. In that case, this wouldn't sound too good.

[LM10]

RB won because they had a massive advantage in the straights from race 1 of the season (on top of being a much better team overall), while the SF 23 won't have it over the RB 19, at least to the same extent. Moreover, the main issue of the RB 18 was the weight which is way easier to fix than an unexpected aero issue which involves the front end, one of the most critical area of the car.

Why are you being so pessimistic? In your last posts you’ve only been negative and saying things like the Ferrari team not being able to make improvements over the season and now you’re having SF90 vibes and thinking the car has some kind of an aero issue hard to fix. There is much more positive things in that article, but you’re picking one other part and interpreting a serious aero issue into it. The car is an evolution of it’s predecessor which was working more than fine. Why should the SF-23 have an aero problem?

Enrico Cardile told that it has more downforce than the F1-75. This already should be enough not to have SF90 vibes. Furthermore the SF90 even with the highest downforce setup just wasn’t good in corners whereas we’ve seen the SF-23 only in it’s low-mid downforce version.

It surely isn’t easy to solve an overweight issue by the way - not in the budget cap era. RedBull had to wait a Full year to bring the lighter car.

[Xyz22]

https://www.formu1a.uno/red-bull-ha-imp ... pricciosa/

****A source confirmed to us that the Ferrari SF-23 revved higher to limit harmful bouncing . Not ideal, however rather conservative the approach that is expected will be much more aggressive from free practice. The car can certainly be much faster than the F1-75
***
The most positive factor, on the other hand, has to do with the efficiency gain, which has been significant. According to an opposing engineer, the GPS of the Ferrari SF-23 showed that it is potentially faster than the F1-75 by 10 km/h at the same load. Contrary to 2022, it is therefore possible that we will see SF-23 in better shape in Jeddah than in Bahrain. Meanwhile, the new rear wing - with more downforce - will be available for the race weekend , the front with an updated element design expected to arrive by Melbourne

How did they manage to make understeery car with that rear wing & also the new pirellis

All that sounds too good to be true to be honest. 10km/h for same load would mean a drag reduction and efficiency improvement of about 8-9% if the power is slightly above the level in 2022 Bahrain (so the same as Barcelona). Not impossible, but quite an achievement if true!

Also, that the front wing is the limiting factor... I mean, it does make sense from a certain perspective, seeing how Sainz was OK and Leclerc not really, but that would mean massive improvements from the floor.

I don't know, too good to be true in my view. Unless RB was carrying massive sandbags, bigger than anyone anticipated, in which case they have a lot more to show. In that case, this wouldn't sound too good.

According to Formu1a.uno (which doesn't mean is true/official) the PU had way more potential even compared to the first few races before they had to tune it down even more.

RB won because they had a massive advantage in the straights from race 1 of the season (on top of being a much better team overall), while the SF 23 won't have it over the RB 19, at least to the same extent. Moreover, the main issue of the RB 18 was the weight which is way easier to fix than an unexpected aero issue which involves the front end, one of the most critical area of the car.

Why are you being so pessimistic? In your last posts you’ve only been negative and saying things like the Ferrari team not being able to make improvements over the season and now you’re having SF90 vibes and thinking the car has some kind of an aero issue hard to fix. There is much more positive things in that article, but you’re picking one other part and interpreting a serious aero issue into it. The car is an evolution of it’s predecessor which was working more than fine. Why should the SF-23 have an aero problem?

Enrico Cardile told that it has more downforce than the F1-75. This already should be enough not to have SF90 vibes. Furthermore the SF90 even with the highest downforce setup just wasn’t good in corners whereas we’ve seen the SF-23 only in it’s low-mid downforce version.

It surely isn’t easy to solve an overweight issue by the way - not in the budget cap era. RedBull had to wait a Full year to bring the lighter car.

How can i be optimistic? Ferrari has not won the WDC since 2008 and has not been in the fight since 2012.
Leclerc looked disappointed after the tests, and now we have reports of an unexpected issue in one of the most critical area of the car, which is causing understeer.

Understeer caused by aero issues is quite hard to fix looking at past seasons. For instance, i remember the 2019 RB which was suffering from quite a lot of understeer, "fixed" only in Austria with a new front wing, and we are talking about the best team in F1, especially in terms of aero development over a season.

At this point i just hope is going to be like in 2018 where they found an issue in the floor they were able to fix it for race 2, gaining a huge amount of performance in the process.

[MV8]

I mean, I'm expecting a start like 2022 and let's see if the team can keep the updates during the season but I'm happy with the work of the team

[dialtone]

How can i be optimistic? Ferrari has not won the WDC since 2008 and has not been in the fight since 2012.
Leclerc looked disappointed after the tests, and now we have reports of an unexpected issue in one of the most critical area of the car, which is causing understeer.

Understeer caused by aero issues is quite hard to fix looking at past seasons. For instance, i remember the 2019 RB which was suffering from quite a lot of understeer, "fixed" only in Austria with a new front wing, and we are talking about the best team in F1, especially in terms of aero development over a season.

At this point i just hope is going to be like in 2018 where they found an issue in the floor they were able to fix it for race 2, gaining a huge amount of performance in the process.

They say they will have a fix in Australia which is the 3rd race and in Jeddah the higher efficiency will more than help. It’s also not like we have other options here…

[organic]

I will note it doesn't necessarily say they will have a fix in Australia.

It says they will have a new front wing by Australia. The article also mentions unexpected understeer.. if they did not expect this understeer, with the lead times for something like a new front wing it cannot be an intentional & direct fix. It's entirely plausible that the rumoured new spec fw could be designed to bring lower front load to gain efficiency overall, also plausible it's designed to bring more front load. We can't say and neither does formula1uno at this stage

[LM10]

I will note it doesn't necessarily say they will have a fix in Australia.

It says they will have a new front wing by Australia. The article also mentions unexpected understeer.. if they did not expect this understeer, with the lead times for something like a new front wing it cannot be an intentional & direct fix. It's entirely plausible that the rumoured new spec fw could be designed to bring lower front load to gain efficiency overall, also plausible it's designed to bring more front load. We can't say and neither does formula1uno at this stage

Charles clearly told that everything they saw on track correlated with wind tunnel and simulator data. I don't think there was anything unexpected. A new front wing for Australia must have been in the pipeline since before testing already.

[organic]

The discussion so far in the thread was made under the assumption that what the article said was true. I don't necessarily believe it either, but Duchessa / formula1uno report this understeer as unexpected.

And to respond to your point in Charles: Leclerc doesn't seem very happy or confident in the car as he did this time last year. And I doubt he would have supported developing towards an understeering balance with his feedback.

Yup that's what I'm saying. A new FW for race 3 would have months of lead time; it cannot be a fix for any unexpected problem, so if the unexpected problem is true then that fw can't be counted upon.

[Henk_v]

Well the Duchessa reports say it's slightly higher downforce. There is also a difference in that image that immediately says it's not the same spec

https://i.imgur.com/7bY1Th0.jpeg

Also just zoom in and follow the leading edge of the mainplane. The double pylon wing is continuously spooned whereas the single pylon has a noticeably more horizontal leading edge through the centre section

https://i.imgur.com/XHT5DJt.jpeg

Well the biggest thing is that the second wing is not attached to the DRS pylon. Judging by the extra stickers they were really interested in flex.

[Xyz22]

Also the RB18 was indeed a bit understeery due to the excessive weight at the start of the season, but already in Imola RB brought huge updates which made the overall balance much better, especially in race trim. Even in Baku, the RB 18 was extremely fast in the race, with Sainz losing 1s per lap over Perez in the first stint.

I've never seen car suffering from understeer winning a WDC in the last 10-12 years. The SF 90 won some races (despite being slower in race trim) due to an engine which had a colossal advantage over MB and RB.

[Henk_v]

I'd dare to say that RB would have won '22 if the tables were turnen and they had shown up with the SF1-75 in Barcelona. With heir superior race execution and effevtiveness of in-season updates they can beat a faster team. They've shown in '21 they can. They can be almost half a second behind on pace and still win on execution.

My point; the SF23 is plenty fast to contend. Being a few tenths off pace is not the thing that'll lose them the WC. I's far more interesting to see if they can compete as a team. The car is just a piece of the fight.

So you identified car weaknesses? Good! Others have them too. You are not a victim. Now how are you going to USE that?

[Xyz22]

I'd dare to say that RB would have won '22 if the tables were turnen and they had shown up with the SF1-75 in Barcelona. With heir superior race execution and effevtiveness of in-season updates they can beat a faster team. They've shown in '21 they can. They can be almost half a second behind on pace and still win on execution.

My point; the SF23 is plenty fast to contend. Being a few tenths off pace is not the thing that'll lose them the WC.

The fact that RB is by far the best team in F1 in terms of execution highlights how strong the car needs to be from the start of the season already.
If Ferrari has a slower car there is no hope they can compete for the title.

[Henk_v]

Well, becoming 2nd because of the car would be a big win. A car can be redesigned in a winter. A team performance can't.