Red Bull RB19

[ringo]

Right, but what if it was not running on bump stops, but engaged another damper., while giving up engagement or leverage on the main spring and damper. Is this done in elsewhere?

Why would you need to, you could just make your rocker progressive or run bypass ports on the heave damper, all fairly simple stuff.

Your biggest problem with running the floor on the floor is aerodynamic instability and not digging the tea tray in like you saw when some cars ran too low in testing - if RB have a secret anywhere for running so low it's in a very stable (aerodynamically) floor design again like last year and back to the famous RB tricks for plank flexing/tea tray flexibility.

Ok I see, well you are the suspension expert on stuff like bypass ports etc. I am not au fait with suspension.
Well I don't think it runs on the floor extensively.
A stable design to me indicates RB19 is generating more load at lower speeds and beyond that the load is steadily increasing without any spikes. As it comes closer to the ground, the ground effect gets stronger and thus load increases at a more rapid rate. The suspension is then stiffer and more damped to prevent the floor from running aground.

[Henk_v]

Nobody has picked up on that anywhere as far as I've seen. Great spot

I posted it before...

[organic]

Nobody has picked up on that anywhere as far as I've seen. Great spot

I posted it before...

Oops I didn't see that then

[PhillipM]

Well I don't think it runs on the floor extensively.
A stable design to me indicates RB19 is generating more load at lower speeds and beyond that the load is steadily increasing without any spikes. As it comes closer to the ground, the ground effect gets stronger and thus load increases at a more rapid rate. The suspension is then stiffer and more damped to prevent the floor from running aground.

I think the main thing is it doesn't really need trick suspension at the rear to run the car on the floor, dragging the floor edges doesn't matter too much as they're so flexible they don't really spike tyre loadings over bumps like digging the front edge of the relatively far more rigid plank does.
What I will note is both RB and Mclaren have changed to a slightly more 'traditional' t-tray design this year so maybe there's something going on up front there rather than the rear suspension.

I think the 'trick' at the rear is entirely the floor aero design rather than anything fancy suspension wise, they can run where they need to and vary damping and stiffness through the travel with all the systems they already have in on any F1 car.

I'm not sure if the Alpine is a red herring because whilst it might be running low to get them peak downforce, it also looked an absolute handful to drive onboard, the drivers were constantly catching the car as it moved around.

[ringo]

Don't see how that would be anything special or any different from tuning bumpstop shims.
If it was just running on stops and arm flex it wouldn't be overdamped it'd be massively underdamped.

Right, but what if it was not running on bump stops, but engaged another damper., while giving up engagement or leverage on the main spring and damper. Is this done in elsewhere?

I'd guess RBR are using a dual spring setup - they certainly looked like they were last year too.

Great post. Yes I guess Phillip M was alluding to this, but not as simple based on his experience.

[djos]

But that's also nothing really that special, no F1 team runs linear springs, they haven't for decades, probably half a century for most teams.

They also generally aren't as simple and brute force as that video demo. That sort of dual spring rate setup is more akin to what I'd use on cheap setups for production cars on coilovers or basic-spec rally cars, etc.

Yes that's true, but the concept is what I'm getting at - what ever Red Bull were doing last year was allowing their car to just drop to the deck and bolting in a straight line.

[Henk_v]

Nobody has picked up on that anywhere as far as I've seen. Great spot

I posted it before...

Oops I didn't see that then

Credit where credit is due, CaribouBread posted it first. Actually the 5th post in this thread.

[Henk_v]

All images from The Race

https://i.imgur.com/fKFUfXn.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/0Pght3A.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/6fZfiPE.jpeg

Looking purely at the upper half of the sidepod (all painted parts) including the inlet scoop, mirror supports: they are surely a reused/carried over specification

Side comparison shows that the rb19 has a proper t-tray like McLaren debuted with which is a bit unusual for the grid. Most have what RB18 had.

Side comparison also shows the overhanging uppermost front wing element which sits much beyond the endplate

Bingo! Look at that first side-by-side pic and tell me those are the same inlets! They are clearly different.

The lighting is playing tricks

https://i.imgur.com/egPErql.jpeg

Note the different perspectives but you can see with similar lighting, the curvatures are highlighted properly. The first picture in the original post has very different lighting making things a bit tricky

I made some pics. Anybody have a quick pointer for me on how to get them on here?

[organic]

I made some pics. Anybody have a quick pointer for me on how to get them on here?

Awesome, see some help about how to post photos here:

viewtopic.php?t=1648

[Stu]

Last year's car:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMRrjbaWUAI ... name=large

Very similar characteristics.

Did anyone truly make sense of last year's rear suspension?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPqRWuRWYA0 ... ame=medium
The secret may be hiding in plain sight.

Yes, but very few people were listening!!

[Henk_v]

50% transparency overlay of the two inlets. Look at the angle at which the inlet is slanted. It's different. I did my vey best to compensate for any perspective.


Look at the different junction to the tub, the sharper radius of the lip. (RB18 top). I traced the profile of the RB18 inlet and copied it onto the bottom pic (RB19) to clearly see the different angle.

It looks as if the side of the lip is much flatter on the RB19, but that's a trick of the light.


Same as pics above but overlayed with 50% transparency

[organic]

The radius of the inlet changing is not just down to the perspective. Good point

[Henk_v]

This one is a bit harder as the pictures have a bit difference in perspective as the car is at a slightly different angle, but the difference in extension of the lower lip is clear (50% overlay)

[Andi76]

Schmidt from AmuS(usually well informed) just reported he was told by Toto Wolff that the RB19 has gone from one extreme to another compared to the RB 18 in terms of ride heights. While the RB18 in 2022 was the car with the highest ride height at the rear, Wolff told him that the RB19 has the lowest rear ride height of all car in 2023 and is much lower (at least 10mm) at the rear. Maybe the RB19 is using negative rake? I think this is actually true, because during the tests it actually appeared to me that the Red Bull was higher at the front than at the rear and that the side edges of the underbody sloped down towards the rear.

[nico5]

Schmidt from AmuS(usually well informed) just reported he was told by Toto Wolff that the RB19 has gone from one extreme to another compared to the RB 18 in terms of ride heights. While the RB18 in 2022 was the car with the highest ride height at the rear, Wolff told him that the RB19 has the lowest rear ride height of all car in 2023 and is much lower (at least 10mm) at the rear. Maybe the RB19 is using negative rake? I think this is actually true, because during the tests it actually appeared to me that the Red Bull was higher at the front than at the rear and that the side edges of the underbody sloped down towards the rear.

I don't know. The titanium edge on the T-tray has been sparking like crazy all the time. And it's uninterrupted, not rythmic like porpoising or sporadic due to bumps. You can clearly hear the difference with the other cars it in the onboard lap comparison video from F1.